From owner-svn-ports-head@freebsd.org Thu Jul 16 14:59:27 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-ports-head@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09D1C9A1D94; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 14:59:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from baptiste.daroussin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-x22f.google.com (mail-wi0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C1331D7B; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 14:59:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from baptiste.daroussin@gmail.com) Received: by widjy10 with SMTP id jy10so18224133wid.1; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 07:59:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=EZDPMPvt43RzCqk4YR0hNYFb5LE3IyOPpsVo6E8yE/c=; b=GK71N3nXSSbUiwcDuAvt3G39fj06i7bGAoto564akPZJJ5vec6sYKAC1MwMFCjLVKY cc0+MhIyiszOIUjD4CfIgYcfLXV18Cet2U6vhYTv8F971UU/jw07gf2sUeyEwjZYRoQ3 lsmDkiXorXRua2C+2LeWqaD+ta3hYEdIf7LXZyozSQhSFNXk2xEdXozJ2WyeqocrMelB LitE6ZG1TnuvNUMXRUf8Zq+lhNdePh6Hj1J369j+fbVt8liGGAyJAiLDk+29A6BQydry 0mLQUDecgHAlSOnpdhIdRr1Y/lMcWLPiiCE7JqfsrNaR1cxX/s4qPwsF8Cgn5S0TG2Ip IJiQ== X-Received: by 10.180.37.229 with SMTP id b5mr6064122wik.16.1437058765054; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 07:59:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ivaldir.etoilebsd.net ([2001:41d0:8:db4c::1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id uo6sm13534962wjc.1.2015.07.16.07.59.23 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 16 Jul 2015 07:59:24 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Baptiste Daroussin Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 16:59:21 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: Alexey Dokuchaev Cc: Mathieu Arnold , Dmitry Marakasov , ports-committers@freebsd.org, svn-ports-all@freebsd.org, svn-ports-head@freebsd.org Subject: Re: svn commit: r392209 - in head/devel: . p5-Minilla Message-ID: <20150716145920.GY37597@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> References: <201507152017.t6FKHElA056017@svnmir.geo.freebsd.org> <20150716014306.GA68880@FreeBSD.org> <20150716091021.GW37597@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <20150716092053.GX37597@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <20150716145201.GA13745@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="mFM6r0jQWo48NPCK" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20150716145201.GA13745@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: svn-ports-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for the ports tree for head List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 14:59:27 -0000 --mFM6r0jQWo48NPCK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 02:52:01PM +0000, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 11:20:53AM +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 11:10:22AM +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 01:43:06AM +0000, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > > > > Can you clarify on what is wrong with :=3D ? I've added IMHO quite= clear > > > > and elaborate explanation in the PH on the matter, and I don't see = the > > > > merit of using MY_DEPENDS at all: it's ugly, it's hard to read, it > > > > pollutes namespace for no sound reason. > > >=20 > > > :=3D enforce the expansion to happen right away > > >=20 > > > Let's say you have: > > >=20 > > > RUN_DEPENDS=3D ${BLOODYSCRIPTLANGUAGEPREFIX}bal>0:${PORTSDIR}/somewhe= re/bla > > > BULID_DEPENDS:=3D ${RUN_DEPENDS} > > >=20 > > > .include > > >=20 > > > BULID_DEPENDS will magically have ${BLOODYSCRIPTLANGUAGEPREFIX} expan= ded > > > to "" because it is not yet defined at the moment the expansion is > > > requested. > >=20 > > Well my example is bad here because undefined variable will be expanded > > later, but I think you got the point about inconsistency of the expansi= on > > with :=3D and look at the svn history I have fixed a couple of weird is= sues > > we hard in the ports tree due do weirdness of how :=3D do the expansion. > >=20 > > I prefer a sane (yet ugly) constuction that consistently works the same > > over the portstree than I constuction which can bite contributors and g= et > > quite complex to debug. >=20 > I see your point. I'm not saying that :=3D is *always* a better way; even > though I must say debugging Makefiles is pretty easy with -V FOO and @echo > in recipes. What I'm not happy with is blunt ":=3D is wrong, don't ever = use > it!" statement: it does come handy often in many cases and checking if it > does the right thing is easy once you compare "make -V RUN_DEPENDS | md5" > vs. "make -V BULID_DEPENDS | md5" (in addition to visual examination). That is imho a too pedantic approach, pragmatism should lead and pragmatism= is people often misunderstand it, and most people do not understand make(1) internals (I won't blame them for that, I would prefer not knowing it in the first place). By people I mean both maintainers and committers if you bring= to the battle the back we do support 2 differents make with slightly different behaviours in some part it becomes even more complicated. We should promote safe syntaxes by handbook or by our own practive because = it will be used as example by others. that will save us from hours having to c= lean the ports tree where things can easily break as a side effect of changes in other parts of the framework. Best regards, Bapt --mFM6r0jQWo48NPCK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAlWnxsgACgkQ8kTtMUmk6EytOACfZe0MAhKRGeFOzE/KNowPuWsD L+MAn1R5smTHeZTAHJeq7f0iaOPM7MJt =piSp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --mFM6r0jQWo48NPCK--