From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 5 11:20:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from monkeys.com (i180.value.net [206.14.136.180]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33298151C9 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:20:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rfg@monkeys.com) Received: from monkeys.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by monkeys.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01057; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:20:26 -0800 (PST) To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Cc: Martin Cracauer , mauzi@poli.hu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: [OFFTOPIC] alt. C compiler In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 05 Jan 2000 11:16:28 -0700. <200001051816.LAA20023@mt.sri.com> Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 11:20:26 -0800 Message-ID: <1055.947100026@monkeys.com> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message <200001051816.LAA20023@mt.sri.com>, you wrote: >> [3] The ANSI C standard, at least, contains the requirement that each >> individual system include file specified by that standard should >> be usable all by itself, without the programmer being required to >> explicitly include any OTHER system include files, prior to the one >> he/she is actually interested in using. > >Can you quote me chapter and verse for this? I don't believe this to be >true, and in truth, I believe this is completely wrong. ANSI 4.1.2: The header declares a set of related functions, plus any necessary types and additional macros needs to facilitate their use. (And if _that_ is not enough to convince you, then I'll just turn the question around... from _me_ having to prove a negative to _you_ having to prove a positive... and ask you to cite chapter and verse where the ANSI C standard sez that you have to include X before you include Y.) >Many system include files are *NOT* for public consumption. Note that I was _very careful_ to say only that the system include files SPECIFIED BY THE ANSI C STANDARD must be able to be included by themselves. Every system I've ever worked on provides LOTS of system include files above and beyond those required by (or mentioned in) the ANSI C standard. Should the ANSI C requirement relating to ``stand alone'' inclusion apply also to _every_ system include file, e.g. on FreeBSD. My own personal opinion is that the answer is ``yes'', if for no other reason, then just because that would make compiler-assisted routine QA of all of the system include files much easier. (It also would make life a bit simpler for programmers too, but we don't care about them, right? :-) >Also, include files should never include other include files... Really? Who said that?? >... as this messes up dependencies. Doesn't for me. Maybe you're doing something wrong. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message