From owner-freebsd-chat Fri May 15 20:57:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA26027 for freebsd-chat-outgoing; Fri, 15 May 1998 20:57:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA26018 for ; Fri, 15 May 1998 20:57:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from toor@dyson.iquest.net) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA15606; Fri, 15 May 1998 22:57:38 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from toor) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199805160357.WAA15606@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: commercial software (definitive) In-Reply-To: <355dec23.77822475@mail.cetlink.net> from John Kelly at "May 16, 98 01:37:55 am" To: jak@cetlink.net (John Kelly) Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 22:57:38 -0500 (EST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, chat@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > On Fri, 15 May 1998 20:19:07 -0500 (EST), "John S. Dyson" > wrote: > > >> The limitations appear to be imaginary. Red Hat and Caldera don't > >> seem to have trouble selling products which include GPLed code. > >> > >They aren't inventing very much. > > For that matter, neither is Walnut Creek. > And I am not funded by WC, for example. I am funded by an organization whose interest is to make money partially upon invention. Much of my work gets folded into FreeBSD, but we do reserve the right until the last minute to choose not to include the work. Note that FreeBSD != WC, but treats FreeBSD very very kindly and fairly. This is as much a good-will arrangement as anything. > > >The limitations have to do with the redistribution encumberances > >placed upon inventions derived associated with GPLed works (among > >others.) > > I like an "encumbrance" which prohibits others from hiding the source > code of derivative works. > I don't. I think that their inventiveness is their business, and the need to somehow force or trick people to give up the fruits of their inventiveness is a canard. Note that the availability of net-support of newly invented or enhanced works is enough of an enticement. The encumberances of heavy handed licenses aren't necessary and are quite restrictive. One thing that I have found in business over the years is that flexibility is very valuable. > > >They have made a tradeoff that interferes with conventional business > >plans. > > Conventional business has little future in today's fast moving world. > I disagree. Business can cooperate more easily with free software if the work isn't immediately encumbered by licenses that take freedom and choice away. Companies blasting and selling CDROM's are nowhere near paying the cost of development of the various OSes. WC happens to be helping and being very generous to FreeBSD, but is not supporting the vast majority of development. Companies who are contributing to FreeBSD, when using it in product, are doing so because they can freely choose from time to time to keep the works private or not, along with the fact that FreeBSD is being contributed to by other companies who have such freedom. When GPLed parts of the system have to be hacked on, it is understood apriori that the work will not be a part of the competitive advantage. A good example of this cooperation using FreeBSD is amongst two potential competitors in the NC or pseudo-NC business, and both products are better because of the cooperation. However, each business keeps their proprietary or strategic inventions private, so each gets the best of both worlds. The loss to the community of these inventions is nill, because those features aren't needed in a general purpose OS. There is NO risk of GPL contamination here, and it is doing both the free software and commercial software communities good. The CDROM manufacturers help enable the synergy that makes it desirable to contribute free software back into the community. Encumbering licenses aren't needed for established projects. In un-established projects, where the original creator needs better protection, there are better licenses than the BSDL, but that isn't what we are talking about here. > > >It is their problem, and doesn't bother me. > > Is it really a problem, or a solution? > It is their problem, not mine. In my world, I can freely work with both non-GPLed and commercial software with few encumberances that cause mutual problems. I also can work with GPLed code, but tend to avoid spending much effort, unless it meets my immediate strategic goals. (I do like hacking on GCC and stuff, but know that any potential competitive advantage is lost, and so don't bother working very hard or seriously on it.) John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message