From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Mar 6 10:59:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns.yogotech.com (ns.yogotech.com [206.127.123.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17A9437B404 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:59:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from caddis.yogotech.com (caddis.yogotech.com [206.127.123.130]) by ns.yogotech.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00818; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:59:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@yogotech.com) Received: (from nate@localhost) by caddis.yogotech.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g26IxQV35679; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:59:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate) From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15494.26382.819650.400667@caddis.yogotech.com> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:59:26 -0700 To: Brett Glass Cc: nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams), freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: C vs C++ In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020306114140.02d4baa0@localhost> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020306075350.00ddfb00@localhost> <3C857080.44C5236B@mindspring.com> <20020305193028.H6706-100000@alpha.yumyumyum.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20020306114140.02d4baa0@localhost> X-Mailer: VM 6.96 under 21.1 (patch 14) "Cuyahoga Valley" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@yogotech.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > >So, why don't you like Java if you like safer languages? > > Because of the "oh, no!" factor. > > You see, whenever Java starts up in a user's browser, the result > is invariably a long delay (during which the browser freezes). The use of Java doesn't necessarily imply the user of a browser. As a matter of fact, I don't consider Java on the browser to be a viable/useful use of Java, except for 'Toy' applets (bouncing dots, waving flags, etc..) > The computer responds slowly, if at all, and memory is often > exhausted. And when the program finally runs, it's usually trivial eye > candy. See above. You're try to use Java on a bloated browser, for an application that doesn't require Java (which has high initial overhead). I meant using Java for something *realistic*, aka an "application". > Now, you know and I know that this is mostly an *implementation* > problem (though some of the overhead really is required by the > language and the runtime environment.) But users don't. When you say > you're working in Java, they expect the worst due to their painful > browser experiences. Most users don't know Java is being used, since the browser experience is painful whether or not Java is being used or not. :) > What's more, I'm not an OOP fanatic. Anything that's inescapably > object oriented requires a long learning curve and can be quite > inefficient. I *used* to think that way until I actually took the time to implement something that forced (!) me to design something in an OOP way., without the language getting in the way. Being C-like I didn't have to re-learn alot of what I already know, so I could spend more time on the design instead of trying to figure out the language so much. Also, I was lucky in that the project had no hard and fast deadlines, so we were free to re-implement some of the basic infrastructure two or three times before we brought it to market. We were able to correct a number of mistakes we made in the first iteration, and then go back and correct our 'fixes' in the third iteration. :) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message