Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 08:17:48 -0800 From: Cy Schubert <Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com> To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Pete Wright <pete@nomadlogic.org>, "Rodney W. Grimes" <freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net>, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> Cc: Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@freebsd.org>, Niclas Zeising <zeising@freebsd.org>, "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>, Stefan Blachmann <sblachmann@gmail.com>, FreeBSD Current <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>, Steve Kargl <sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu>, Vladimir Kondratyev <vladimir@kondratyev.su> Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? Message-ID: <362D8283-0B7D-402F-99CD-657021597955@cschubert.com> In-Reply-To: <11a49d72-3158-1b9a-f933-6702d8f5c238@nomadlogic.org> References: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <11a49d72-3158-1b9a-f933-6702d8f5c238@nomadlogic.org>
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On February 18, 2019 9:17:37 AM PST, Pete Wright <pete@nomadlogic=2Eorg> wr= ote: > > >On 2/18/19 8:50 AM, Rodney W=2E Grimes wrote: >>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 9:12 AM Rodney W=2E Grimes < >>> >>> I don't know=2E I think the fact that drm2 doesn't support anything >newer >>> than 5-year-old hardware is a pretty convincing evidence that the >old way >>> is broken and doesn't work=2E >> But it DOES work, I am pretty sure we have 1000's of users on that 5 >year >> old hardware that are totally happy with the intree DRM2 that is in >stable/12, >> and some of whom have ventured into head/13 are having issues with >thete a >> "new" model (ie kmod broken by a base commit)=2E I know that there is >wip >> to get CI coverage for that, but wip is wip, and we need to start >changing >> the cart horse driver order we keep doing and get things right=2E Port >> up and working, with CI testing *before* we go remove kmod'ed code >from >> base would be a much more appropriate path=2E >> >> I think one serious problem here is the summary dismissal of things >> simply on the "5 year old" basis=2E Not everyone, and infact few now >> a days other than corporate buyers, can afford new hardware, >> giving the minimal performance increase in systems over the last 5 >> years the cost/benifit factor of a new computer is just too low=2E >I've put a lot of effort helping test and document how to get a usable=20 >desktop environment on a modern laptop=2E=C2=A0 there were two issues whi= ch=20 >motivated me to do this: > >1) my observation that many developers at conferences and online were=20 >using macOS as their primary desktop environment=2E=C2=A0 when comparing = this=20 >to the OpenBSD and Linux community I felt pretty embarrassed, but it >did=20 >explain the stagnant nature of our graphics subsystem=2E=C2=A0 people see= med=20 >afraid to touch things due the brittle nature of its hardware support=2E I noticed this too=2E And every time it struck me as odd=2E > >2) i was in need to an *affordable* machine with a warranty=2E >fortunately=20 >there are many affordable laptops at staples, best-buy and amazon - but > >they were all post haswell systems, rendering them basically useless=20 >from a FreeBSD perspective=2E Which is why removing drm2 was necessary=2E=20 > >after trying to get traction to update the in-tree drm subsystem i was=20 >lucky enough to sync up with the graphics team which was working on=20 >syncing things up with modern hardware support=2E=C2=A0 because of that i= 'm >now=20 >able to get my small startup pretty much all on board with FreeBSD=2E=C2= =A0 i=20 >use it on my workstations as well as on or server infrastructure=20 >(physical and AWS)=2E=C2=A0 i would consider this a success for our commu= nity=20 >as it's opened up the eyes to a whole new generation of devs to >FreeBSD=2E > >one thing missing from all of these arguments is real data=2E=C2=A0 how m= any=20 >people are on haswell era hardware?=C2=A0 i can tell from my experience t= he=20 >past several years the number of people who have post-haswell gear seem > >to be more numerous, or at least more vocal (and frankly easier to work > >with while squashing bugs)=2E > >i can also say that personally it would be great to improve support for > >systems requiring drm2 - but that gear is hard to come by, so we are=20 >really dependent on helpful collaboration from those who are being >effected=2E Drm2 is not required=2E My current laptop is 5 years old, an HD3000=2E The= previous one is 13 years old, i915=2E Both work perfectly with drm-current= on 13-current=2E Franky, I don't see what the fuss is about=2E > > >-pete > >--=20 >Pete Wright >pete@nomadlogic=2Eorg >@nomadlogicLA > >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-current@freebsd=2Eorg mailing list >https://lists=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >To unsubscribe, send any mail to >"freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd=2Eorg" The only irritation with drm-current is after doing a NO_CLEAN build ARC i= s large enough that on occasion a video may not play because X is unable to= get the memory=2E Other than that it works better than drm-legacy -- with = no artifacts=2E --=20 Pardon the typos and autocorrect, small keyboard in use=2E Cheers, Cy Schubert <Cy=2ESchubert@cschubert=2Ecom> FreeBSD UNIX: <cy@FreeBSD=2Eorg> Web: http://www=2EFreeBSD=2Eorg The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few=2E
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