From nobody Mon Jun 22 17:21:43 2026 X-Original-To: dev-commits-src-main@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4gkZkT043Wz6hcM5 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2026 17:21:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic304-24.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (sonic304-24.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.137.68.205]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4gkZkS3m9Lz3XxQ for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2026 17:21:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marklmi@yahoo.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1782148905; bh=7jbn9IcrAMgcuQ6j9AWw4KjukjxOrWKM1Fu9AhndNP8=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=itT4AvRJEAtPLi5jxbB2No33gJZPH6MnUT7FQcb48M4NAdLYQVobXfrv1/tM/oiXwGxFh7R3uB3YxZarltN8m8LgsbAGIrZH9pb8nbx9sqdeNfQyW3K/2rFu40leaseS4SOiwWf2jNVMAYS8SzDF8sB3WxI1dvu0hwPZh6APdYXp2PN5pQveSY/vKm3S0LTbLdVmWX+I0m10JMoW4sxdU6ujHKjjj78tIMVCd79cQs3l7KChtm8IvhfUso2CS53lZuXy4nnj51LKs3zbtNVmgLgp27+Yi/CtadkhlkGfp85GcVZwURLH/YWOVsucZHLLeYH40+IKtrFWbujk7SfiPQ== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1782148905; bh=JnUN1RC4vtusQ3Z9Os644zskxMKGqLtwk5OJEf8eg8k=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Date:Subject:To:From:From:Subject; b=cqpRdtBOna8b9OJDrXyWLJ8fJ9mL5Ld+Bf9M2si1URFblXRk7um3okvuemStgL3kYKTeKI+XdONz3pCT4cz1aj8yTj+j6pa4Y+s2180H1nJ7TQlF06lO27bEezfPMHtFKpIYFOvuwouIer3WCuz4Kb9fOhc19oFYx+CmVisCZ9VkpAy9T9OROQV9vtwwf90sNzXmESBzimBOEEfnuh0vrVC0brtfASY1erT4GJ0/kWpFFWAvZ9+UMtxZmbirguiCI6mZeYkcS4cuaMjJFgxsPkGpVpfdyFqukUsjMG/TY/szeqi6gqauGxPYn2uGlTOPhPVji9gknJMyc54ZQFtR2A== X-YMail-OSG: Kx0oAhkVM1mGlunpiFPgNImS_le_sfiELp55svixAZr0y5RFtXoVkgGmohjUoov uQyqQTDSpMGhKJXxXCxIioPVs_jH3ki9Kun91EDixrw3itVxDMAzlCP1HGE5jEHvnpiRWg0znpNZ RyuGxZ_yMpOQug6m6AUGGQcpmgnCzK9ghDdVRhlUxpnMPdo9KTsTtDPXCjEOFof.GiDkXecvqMiV OrTSbnr16WVd_gye17j9E3VOWXu8a59LezqeghTYKpg5NWfcMeThzhRGlMBWsRt69aF6CaRA4Q1g 2E4PJAiRAoAi4iTcxtKug.M_1QmlxFg6D0OlbAu_nWH_B06iGoemgKiXbL1ynIn0U5psX.MdCyjx 1pl3HSfzpMwZWUgRGgZlGNz4HBgn2pcxjGYLE75WXsFwazr956KwwIJU3jaXm0zrXSmwOXEYDlqA 5LMZKeYqHHvSEnGlTrX4gnWEOnMyHt67C8n9tk3ja.6x4_LmRxGob3IwajZBwwB0bDOO_kLC2kjl yj_zvEGSVBDfj.A.REs.LqMAQ.Re0kSp4leEPdpXo6XkmflHaOd5gIsq2NV3scfeRKsv3Fzecs5o JCp8Y3v4B0pzj5TIiB4RwAwavzapz5p7L_dIRdLvZHmFGgfinjTJ3KiYDvy9Ompnp1PMEdYx3yWs hsiocflg7S7q6iPtpo7UD03R2punvz1j9_C.57wg2F0SY73ep_Q4dpea4c5koH0J1EMY37J1jVhq O68z3ODvrsuibcEm2Ft._AYb_zVr4x6hgZHACPHNK84m4X8Kc0xItOgf.cfdO2KLEegdqpWXOEMm d_Mr2fndSfMM8KJ.3KyfnXeuw0._Vi445GCVsyWtPM0HPqUkwkXenYbl9js9dp2pJGSn_fyCixcp zNMpCG9YQtbRT1jxELH1qGOo4zE.UhuOKLN73ZwIf9Oshg_tL_8rtWfyK8dQxFU1xRL6NoOyl0G_ c9PIqhzugh3ONmARRSQ0z1qhUEMjBWS2KLJjrq4mKjJLa0eHWAD9SxZa1j98pVSTWXy._XxsXRUG ZR24E6cuEHtWzHf8Ptgb7HwYI9iwitU8wjne4ICOiJgq6r.j8c97zbCaZP1llly4a.JwreLUr6wW LQlPsntq2RIXk4cyYTbl7BjDTQiGJ_DIB68i6NS0wLrozg6ZlTkyU5vijEy4.Ug.0v_knC.nLuM5 9qY2xFiQmIl1QU54lEiz9Lkk_CAU.bwhtb2uPDDvaJtaVgI4HS0dDG0hgCsQXcHelB5URzPksNLU eyCHcpUd6H_z8UM.mCGw2F1SvQOkxzLEOD9IryyYpOgp0sI9mQ_moUaz7IYdehQiDxSNNilO5E9b BlPXeVcHGaenD5.kh5K3Y3A5DwRxw2BMoB9n_l756P68gdFu4yCktVQeVVSvJJpUh63WX3RMKWqv XkvTz31Y4lvEjQ1otHHbPKEQ1sYD779agF4l64hlxf3Oxeha6GMQr645_fIz5GVCtiN2o5Dp5.oP PcuuDvKT88JPv0ZP8gtoih9vYLRgxqsfslGAB865t8CISq6y7d9Dy9kjMiPHz39EdM_zOrqw1QRc L0dd58QIVvXUGD0s6yzCm8OogZr.KmTsVZ4txTGIT71r.z1olvWiKGEFv1H639JbTbLwpYhSxkzQ 0fRllcyDeWMLO.zXlnH1_QHPStsWHSoXt2YNdkaIfYwMKF_A7cP.CcNX79M5s71.SvdXPJdrI9h4 6MCODUQGze1vU0W5iB2qBHqdFm3WwqH1ymQzbgOL_kxlwCLHcQr1vMjPLhXuzgDM56O_Mn0L4FA6 Pkea6MSULhD4DSUf7Kj1Zs9uA1vqS2DIpljenleBwSDmQbeU7y5ZUnrMHx3rlBkv884Ldb9JkywT SGSbtWfykK0YESdSaNsFyF6eiTDiVdgJIrI7_QJy2dIrayuL319HuBR9Dx1.7wdsxE35VSv.aYmU iFCTh9flnr7ACY3JlXKVQAU6fBiAGVKr0JvYvn8zp1PcQ0MBBfIrQ5oKNhFic2rncUDEXJyFv.8Y vWywWvoK5aNLRzXQ755VjRAmxVvbdm.sJrzYReMOUAUT8m3RVb3gXEUrnmsU4KMMbzf5wD7KlQ8B KN6NH8djSDgafOB4640zegEVRfFT74ocCX3PyfjBIFBVkcOyKpDQJp_Fpj7CqyzgtsoIwtQHQKhw eL5SaCddTiBFEl9_mJk.afZxxktDDSzTxXhUP8Wd4s9e0dfkKJ5jZy6ooUjgiUNZpW0UjYsEwSqR fUNmdcEr4YzjKIz7GNSTIVAt6fN3GBU3VEIFUq.woagrj7PqjerHrL6F17TmiW7.OE1S5xhp6zlj 5hWRxU5NAYjGQhnoeuZUrc2vGbNhGxOLG_YAWjtKsEu3ZRuxyMU1g3w-- X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: a1157a6a-43f1-49e0-8c8d-72adb8c51c3a Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic304.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 22 Jun 2026 17:21:45 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-gq1-7bb7df5c46-q7ps5 (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID a0eec9af15bc40a06f49fe5805c8db1d; Mon, 22 Jun 2026 17:21:44 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <59e46efb-efa1-473e-88a0-e698765acc8f@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2026 10:21:43 -0700 List-Id: Commit messages for the main branch of the src repository List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/dev-commits-src-main List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org Sender: owner-dev-commits-src-main@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: git: 28cecfe27964 - main - libc: Restrict ATOMIC_VAR_INIT for C23 conformance To: Faraz Vahedi Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= , Warner Losh , Warner Losh , dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org, dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org, Nuno Teixeira , Robert Clausecker References: <6a35ddd3.22963.721d614@gitrepo.freebsd.org> <4e902fcf-e79c-47b5-a51f-4881c09f7528@yahoo.com> <94E5F613-3930-464B-AC10-4943230C2025@kfv.io> <86bjd3rmpr.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <20418B20-C033-4360-B5F9-0BA39609FA4D@kfv.io> <864iiusvc9.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <94E4DD27-D5B7-4749-8A93-3FBECBF44CD5@kfv.io> Content-Language: en-US From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: <94E4DD27-D5B7-4749-8A93-3FBECBF44CD5@kfv.io> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.26016 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4gkZkS3m9Lz3XxQ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated On 6/22/26 05:13, Faraz Vahedi wrote: > Hey Robert, > >>> First, let me add that in case we decide to keep the __BSD_VISIBLE gate, the >>> condition needs to be reconsidered entirely, since __BSD_VISIBLE is 1 in the >>> default environment and makes the __ISO_C_VISIBLE check unreachable in the >>> common case. Ergo, with no explicit feature-test macros, __BSD_VISIBLE is 1 >>> unconditionally and the condition __BSD_VISIBLE || __ISO_C_VISIBLE < 2023 >>> erroneously exposes ATOMIC_VAR_INIT even when compiled with -std=c23, >>> which the C23 standard explicitly removed. >> >> That would be correct then. >> We provide this macro as an extension, even if the standard no longer supplies >> it, unless the configuration is set up to disable extensions. >> This is the same policy we follow with all libc symbols and macros, unless >> there is a solid reason not to provide them at all (e.g. due to a type change >> or conflict with a more recent feature). > > Oh, alright, now I get the point. I'll keep it in mind. Thanks to both of you for taking > the time to explain. It took me a while to get there, but it's well established in my > head now. > > Cheers, > Faraz Some alternate (incomplete) wording that also fits --but is more language standard point of view biased for what little it covers: Generally, and generally deliberately, language/library standards tend to say a lot about what must be present and how something that is explicitly optional should be present if it is. They tend to avoid declaring much about what cannot be present, including about most things previously present in prior variants of the standard that are no longer present. Such things are generally not significantly constrained by such a standard. -- === Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com