From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Tue Feb 19 10:14:50 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 934EE14EAB37; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 10:14:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johalun0@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-x32f.google.com (mail-ot1-x32f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7736280106; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 10:14:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johalun0@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-x32f.google.com with SMTP id b3so33254388otp.4; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 02:14:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=+EgTmta24yW6IDADtZH/jTShhz+EPVJEjNAJBSTqs1o=; b=J/alzgS534TJdQU3q9+m4xG8xp7+iinG8zgUcVYkXpGKdhj1DUKvbeU+oLVo7mKJQv /bDyPJ84zPcQzrQ6XkbKaiFUaImO0bs107Js5AVAKopI2BvxBmjiPPCLLLj8DQ/EBItc cgIHLefGSuEWrIgHC5ByQMoT5LtrS7fhd5z6GrWabN07zgxmhKBixX1sPJRuIoCoobVC Cmh1r5kz2iLLVVXeY1FdhlrPOQ4EUC5rVn9vlFll10RusMuQZ2dwkjaSnUNpHHRcoknI XXUaOXOifcBI4sq7cvUfCfoidaRnRPCKQrvLW5qTAwpMbNkfucDUna99wqqD678ojLky VUsw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=+EgTmta24yW6IDADtZH/jTShhz+EPVJEjNAJBSTqs1o=; b=myktLBeDC/vrRhBjQu2KXecBEAz5tRQEPRR+MHZDxevcYsACC5PS9IaprqxUn0/bgd CCS9gVujk2y9JBHX5rIysWtdiqzXsMgwB8FJvgMZZ0tho/szHgmTmtkLsMLCHhFUYBOO Pt7eUfJ9Ie5mlltz+gxrDCEHjdBJxZU9Q9z/v4AIcRF6kHywojo/ySLAdfXpxatnU/QI lJ5XZBGausMfgoUyLn7MU4Cx6T/wrvRo6w9xfPdJ0ALFsAe4P3UiKt0vAHaLHh9jUHzr rNNVHkh7s+bLZxK96JFbJQaTFLlLNBEJt2ew2e3VZqcuWPQzCu0Vi1FnfG7XqEuIW4Oi m/mQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuaDrzixSdZTYeXCpr7MXnQYJU4dZ3Kfy6ZM8WZsx6AhvvPr3xCf SWa9eJ/Fq4y7uINe3b3w8Qw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IaaEUSMd0EFV+Q//Jjrh9ZyMhGKAZRLXKAsfNMQvu+5+BiLGcQfn8WVJTDrBV5u1cLk8MDvuQ== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:5e8c:: with SMTP id f12mr17760443otl.343.1550571288270; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 02:14:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.33] ([81.174.250.12]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r132sm4249463oie.20.2019.02.19.02.14.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 19 Feb 2019 02:14:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? To: Mark Linimon , "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Warner Losh , Baptiste Daroussin , Niclas Zeising , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Stefan Blachmann , FreeBSD Current , Steve Kargl , Vladimir Kondratyev References: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <20190218225407.GA7187@lonesome.com> From: Johannes Lundberg Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=johalun0@gmail.com; keydata= mQINBFxFmoIBEADoFO5jY+Fmsg44KiZjufEmpEf4kt7nCOfxNG9SruWpoXUaq0B296F+fIZC hNZqv1v7lGTsfoWRusxJmLd5CQgHHxEyruZbbPpNsQ/JKoDY3GGmrmWfN/SX3y0t0kdB9HsW mJcvZhK7we52f4gxddIVBS9nQoVoONX+hzXf8zwOAa0ik0EPgEwpIKS4j9lLq4bU+mqVKdRR bPeDujEA/qbsCKhaFJkPzXZtzEe6srq4RK1doEztwnKz02b+8gs642TRkWDQeTRZputrAaoN Un4R76A1QpXWyrFG1dQu48IGHi3KbkrvNyq6R1aUBIA0+CG1npIbxmc2mtSjoyvdipmDRbBD +mhECIxmYfBT6818zuj91XjrfOyfVdV2BryBvqFkJLkS3N3QElBIiVdDgdrqiNFWiOlDMxNI tdP16oQBNo8IB27/0YHpnQEw1MafZv5gG5DO0zLtLy88ASAfL7BYf90JP19rT4JIwnxsXxyv kEJnzhsXf0QVObEiAu1MqeFyWfZ8PpunmvEmJ0VChOL+v/kIx1E9cxhhzMZhqiMXfyM4zx2+ BF1FwAwJYPuJLu2B3L0uVBu+M1YvSOmKAbXPDP8PsqPjgSBTYI51MUjuuxN6jSsHDuK6G5k4 pUWR8axa+wafhd6Vz8zVwdTJZ9LdxgLLVg0kprBgccPHhPAZVQARAQABtCZKb2hhbm5lcyBM dW5kYmVyZyA8am9oYWx1bjBAZ21haWwuY29tPokCVAQTAQgAPhYhBIl1Pb3+hI60ivmRSULn yG4BGvSeBQJcRZqCAhsjBQkJZgGABQsJCAcCBhUKCQgLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEELnyG4B GvSe9O0P/RzeQAu1R37RlONZTXNn+qIAHvHbZEhzrCibzaZnwYdC31wGrYmXNDyiQIqOngFf QJuufQtH/+95OESJsjR+42L/pNfFdaEWxiI003qE7uCMzLK5UWUXd/5d5vYY0CaPyNCj1tyM ZIq7x4CaR3QLTh/Fw4zMUI/ZPH2S5SxVFGv0ZZFAdNYILD3qCkAS/9HmXsqufBWbfutA8TTf wyJfywmvf7ENjlZ4QOjb242ZY9NndqbmqTgWVAws+PN5e9AT8HkadscCTCSkYnxJyYG2El27 DpAAkekYplb/C0j82KSz2fy9RgwD+tTqt88DJOeFbIbrYt44u7KLHpzaZeqyUtn0reHCkE0W lnKH2kXXbuswFB4sONxI/J5+qSmOsAm5ItO3voyjm/swpmFR1yBlxo4th26gbO5NfBOK9YsY zHKgiRDv6ZdnHo+htphRxcCDHsFPzkQe5jouI25dvMZYl1LaTS/09lwYVwVIB2SFmMtFZ7rB N4NBSzPlpsg+g4dJNqiw6Rfa2Q/wUv+MzTJgLtHjDccXlpm33Nc09UytHFtNn26PO/zrM39r TwzdLu1mg0x2WWEWTIqe4CaczQU9SIg49BSyJNoPSZx3V7nMhTKbOeQKR5aV3dXI66aENw86 pa1tipuUKCPmope/GTJatUgPiD3JkyiD+7c1zQX2UAGmuQINBFxFmoIBEACb55RAkM59huAx 4Ddd8WBjsw25qf7rzxeRKAQ7or/8LvJBYQDPXZy0RhkRiu+P+MjxwGb6HVh+LDyAYDn9d8Mt ZqCP/dOGNcl7pkb6IhfRc3i5neckXCYfbm0cigiX9JkqZSt3KT96zbjCxsFZKyIyEFsMl46q 7wKWK5Irj3zxV/Z51JNTJyMLcIRWhY8G6qlMNFgZkz2Hv63w6BRekKVImOmOdThLAscy5ybq 2CIUeAwPG7lMYG9rgcPdn3tMPeWlLmUmi5pSwOQ3AKg3xFrW3WfegjRHdqpeuXoeTjYPPCW4 gyl59uv6E12a6eivItCxj67vlBXgOr4um+zoPyXG/WfidIFtWaEgyBrlGR1Klk7SIcqjEHUA FdiM+PweY4opHXXKn60NOZCqBJ59K43drOQgRouz8E2T3yEoYg40xAfY3lhJV/Vx5+kSTjmy sT2xotlPn/GzfaAEvNuJDK+Mec3LvfbbDoOWFolNyEvoMQqF5Q3A8eGqYsoVGBPxyzNvF2iY LkymxiXpgrSN0Q/LOK7pFlWwbVC8Z6g5I0J9ecgD55dGLoX2luLir787XX/JxGffzbRnP9NE ifenJGrQmx4CyEaz/CHQqSbROm5Uo/YFUX9J7OfUO4mtu90j773j32I3psey/Fz3EC/A2PHv Ghb0KsWYpS3Pj5TV1gGyswARAQABiQI8BBgBCAAmFiEEiXU9vf6EjrSK+ZFJQufIbgEa9J4F AlxFmoICGwwFCQlmAYAACgkQQufIbgEa9J7qOQ//YG/4e69YTSjtiYLXzBI8tRU2Sx+NFByx zx+C/r0EBThLtgRwCqEUZRB7iIDSO8aZ0Qa3vwWRohlD1tn/LBdDFfMmuQkNVdLIrjBoGBB9 B5xHdZJ9xnTZEwpTtk6IWolT4j+8rpGemGKKiFo3X6l02On4Qb4iM7h6rcDb76mfwooNYzB3 8PPcLvyOWb/9iCXAb5N7doo5zmOl15DVwvIF04eXU0q1FFj/iS1zNmtZ5Got82O1TQFV+de4 Rb3YA80IZhhhCiHHJqkMKeKQogRqU+UNDBARUBxfUtKsJtQzTQ2JUGwkb6X6bx53FTLP6O9q hDoODVweE1LdB1k1H5Nn+gawPdRMBqj43Y2amK7KEgoTBrwU04CLpKiaAC0S+EcJFfJcwtpK k3F+uTtP/hnhFnWbn8SgRkHKXKWqSCt63NstXhMzAJut1gEzV+CcPNKqa/sFgQaYEvzCS5Kl F/PXj0++f3TIFqT+2ZNNp8Bz8dT7gh8RPPg5oYQiCHH8K1RAmq7gKqmwyg0qgOazHnped+od X4f3qx320JAP6NP9wglDm6eht48NJzb0sffN8z34wrP66oz8oPKtS5CFV0m/384hEg0lmi3W wo2Hno7rA1etTPJX0dI6/GLlQDtNTHvKQ077HQdWVOMQVWC9j7YH7Zr9NjtOvxcNVRX3fxpJ 6CE= X-Tagtoolbar-Keys: D20190219101444679 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 10:14:44 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; 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FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(-2.64)[ip: (-8.54), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.59), asn: 15169(-1.99), country: US(-0.07)]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[f.2.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 11:34:13 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 10:14:50 -0000 On 2/18/19 10:54 PM, Mark Linimon wrote: > On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 08:50:27AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >> I think one serious problem here is the summary dismissal of things >> simply on the "5 year old" basis. > IIUC the graphics changes are being forced upon FreeBSD by external > projects (mainly Linux-based) that are making huge architectural change= s > that rely more and more on features from newer hardware. > > If our upstreams aren't willing to do the work to keep from violating > POLA on older hardware, IMHO it's an awful lot to ask of our already > thinly stretched graphics volunteers to provide it in their stead. > > w/rt graphics, we are at far more danger of being left further and > further behind on modern hardware than we are at risk of losing users > on older hardware here. This! Especially, support for modern laptops is important. Personally, I don't know many developers who use a desktop PC these days (but I do respect the fact that many do - old PCs as well). My laptop builds world in 1h30m which is pretty decent. I don't feel a need at all for desktop computer and I don't want to trade away the freedom of bringing my laptop with me anywhere for work. When it comes to attracting new developers, modern laptop support also plays an important role. Without new developers coming in, this project will fade out and die. Another side of graphics which isn't discussed at all is GPU computing using technologies like Radeon Open Compute, made possible by the amdgpu driver with KFD (porting work in progress but not a priority atm). i915kms has GVT for virtualization of the GPU (porting initialized). These are pretty serious technologies that could potentially lead to good business (which is now lost to Linux). Modern graphics support isn't all about fancy desktops and spinning gears.=C2=A0 Totally outside the topic of this thread but I felt like ranting a bit...= =2E PS, if anyone want to help develop an iommu driver for amdkfd, please let us know :) Cheers! > Again all IMHO. > > disclaimer: I don't use any fancy graphics stuff, so (as the old folks > say around here) "I have no dog in this hunt". > > mcl > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg"