From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG  Tue Apr  1 20:32:42 2008
Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG>
Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org
Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 868EE106564A;
	Tue,  1 Apr 2008 20:32:42 +0000 (UTC)
	(envelope-from mfouts@danger.com)
Received: from mx.danger.com (wall.danger.com [216.220.212.140])
	by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 688538FC15;
	Tue,  1 Apr 2008 20:32:42 +0000 (UTC)
	(envelope-from mfouts@danger.com)
Received: from danger.com (exchange3.danger.com [10.0.1.7])
	by mx.danger.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 282AB403D0A;
	Tue,  1 Apr 2008 13:32:33 -0700 (PDT)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 13:32:41 -0700
Message-ID: <B95CEC1093787C4DB3655EF330984818051D1E@EXCHANGE.danger.com>
In-Reply-To: <200804012014.m31KEvTJ041049@apollo.backplane.com>
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
Thread-Topic: Flash disks and FFS layout heuristics
Thread-Index: AciUNRcYybraZFx2R9SkG1318plQVgAAL2Xg
References: <20080330231544.A96475@localhost>
	<200803310135.m2V1ZpiN018354@apollo.backplane.com>
	<B95CEC1093787C4DB3655EF330984818051D03@EXCHANGE.danger.com>
	<200803312125.29325.qpadla@gmail.com>
	<200803311915.m2VJFSoR027593@apollo.backplane.com>
	<B95CEC1093787C4DB3655EF330984818051D09@EXCHANGE.danger.com>
	<200803312006.m2VK6Aom028133@apollo.backplane.com>
	<B95CEC1093787C4DB3655EF330984818051D0A@EXCHANGE.danger.com>
	<200803312254.m2VMsPqZ029549@apollo.backplane.com>
	<B95CEC1093787C4DB3655EF330984818051D0D@EXCHANGE.danger.com>
	<200804011733.m31HXF6e039649@apollo.backplane.com>
	<B95CEC1093787C4DB3655EF330984818051D17@EXCHANGE.danger.com>
	<200804012014.m31KEvTJ041049@apollo.backplane.com>
From: "Martin Fouts" <mfouts@danger.com>
To: "Matthew Dillon" <dillon@apollo.backplane.com>
Cc: Christopher Arnold <chris@arnold.se>, arch@freebsd.org, qpadla@gmail.com,
	freebsd-arch@freebsd.org
Subject: RE: Flash disks and FFS layout heuristics
X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture <freebsd-arch.freebsd.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch>,
	<mailto:freebsd-arch-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-arch>
List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-arch@freebsd.org>
List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-arch-request@freebsd.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch>,
	<mailto:freebsd-arch-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 20:32:42 -0000

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Dillon [mailto:dillon@apollo.backplane.com]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 1:15 PM
> To: Martin Fouts
> Cc: qpadla@gmail.com; freebsd-arch@freebsd.org; Christopher=20
> Arnold; arch@freebsd.org
> Subject: RE: Flash disks and FFS layout heuristics

> You know as well as I do that embedded projects are=20
> ALWAYS a trivial subset of something.

No, I don't know that. It is hard to "know" something that is not true.

> Until you get to the level of  sophistication of
> an iPhone.

Although Apple is getting much hype about the sophistication of the
iPhone, we've been shipping convergent devices of that complexity for
some time now. Apple have better industrial design, but they're not
doing anything, other than the touch screen, that we haven't already
done.

You are now *starting* to understand the level of complexity of CE
embedded devices.

> My interest is in large scale systems, OF COURSE I'm=20
> approaching the problem from the point of view
> of large scale systems and not small
> scale systems.  Don't be silly.

Actually, Matt, it's you, by trying to solve a complex embedded systems
problem as if it were a 'degenerate' large scale systems problem, who
are "being silly."  You keep handing me crowbars when I need a scapel.