From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Aug 6 19:21:31 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4131E3A940C for ; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 19:21:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic302-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic302-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.186.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BMyyy0SS1z4Tth for ; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 19:21:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: 99C32DAVM1nvqWa2yOo182mQlWhqpmC_zit5i8ZD94sCMpVwA7kNcJfe8CCHJNX 2tr2khZTB1uSYEg9wKc.MFEtliJjLv1TuC060As0hr13oIP_8Jcnm6cIaZIoktl5_YHkI3ZvhBvz ckktb2.DZZcEgE3CU2TEmDA4M3ehmlPdAzMQQqvfeIvu80qqjN6knH.Qwese9PrzMlugD.C6gHV3 YFWnT7LJVpPFBkm8bW5_t_UZCufMeVAYn6KPE0uYvkg.geYCXG01npfGdNckgUkPUujr_AiNsTGs 3xQZJaIgLcgeweCUuJN2KR0pcpdWHpzBI91atmeTtUl1UPr4ZDrkfoiouUPMeRiJqQ55HBJpj1Zi 0b0dwL1rnqlRVJTNkxcFDXegmC_uCi_yXGyejXGMh2LrvAJ3kLnxDGh7F4SSVvNvADSfq.2yyhBA D3hXtzY81Bd0sYErJgVi4Yo_5GYRe8LNXk239BQTucFQFeUQ2IFFIOOrHtMst0Bgi2pcMiYa9P8r OHthyefmLzb3gnB9_aXvK_VS4gDpbAk8YL7MaJb8WoUaHyTPHfxPLflilSDOAW0KYIjj_EqaTtmJ LKMAgFq8cIzKF6DLDxx.8_UkQIRbuEeEbknG0S92iuPMrP2bFdRvioPpMr8PFR5vtuTDPcDbz4lY rzI0nVCnSQNRCnsOcwfs9BkaHSD4YO7yjv5ZxYkuWHpcFrqGOqDZSL1NwUX3P7bHexx2jQRj7vKS OzEHd6eHqiPfeVxDsj_9SgMZA_twAGI.3.wgRLOe.2OlFwVrNesVnUDisa2bRxwKHNszRSJWvbjb 07Vqhz4ZKWgw3.vuOw_YqH_pUne7VZApiuhaYT5JdYPDqHP3CX79dgQeowtVItsu4cxa_L9aOGhl kx0djz8.hgHSDU5z4HAK_oz4QmSEoisAEYFafSUT1JywmlEYaFQMUG1RujtMV8nX_7CWs.A7xnr6 WLVArTX40x_d2F5iIwX4dKjbveqPlp5V9pqaBPDS2ju3EZweJHSCToFSgq9QkOkRDgfgQeRluMQM hFlQzjLqhPdFg5eJqsXjflLy9qTjI6agTzIBpSnZpAvOC8iTpynLjKScfYuxK2vP_f08dvVXOO1H qJCnh.gO2Ea2xMIFHizHVjlGcOtb5L.xC0GwYpRrPIH2PU5QHvvh0f1soBA3EhqlszoW_1u8eUIp W62BegGlQEwCUITiVMh.jwdHNJSrdSZ7HxQog1NVsNh3QcmKl6.fWdiPUAD_HgOz94mn.vhDmnbO zRUTZs675ERDb4Xqx_KdZWtDvn4W_qiavACJhWuvxo8ckid2xYn8jmRuXcFQtu4hXP9vGyc7IumG xWokwL1tYNw-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic302.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 19:21:28 +0000 Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 19:21:28 +0000 (UTC) From: Paul Pathiakis To: Jacques Foucry , Polytropon Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <1535400648.1041648.1596741688161@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20200805204546.d1bf410e.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <575C4647-8F20-4187-9B74-2D509D31A249@gmail.com> <4fefedad-5b2a-11b8-7b22-3b6162f0404f@holgerdanske.com> <20200805182636.GD48435@mithril> <20200805204546.d1bf410e.freebsd@edvax.de> Subject: Re: Question re ZFS with mixed drive speeds & types MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16436 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/80.0.3987.100 Safari/537.36 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BMyyy0SS1z4Tth X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.19 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[66.163.186.148:from]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[freebsd]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.987]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[66.163.186.148:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.15)[-0.149]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.05)[-1.052]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2020 19:21:31 -0000 Wow.... someone as old as me... :) I had no idea.=C2=A0 I remember a lot of those applications in an OS that w= ere based on this theory.=C2=A0 I believe there were even a few that indexe= d tape drives with UNIX i-nodes.=C2=A0 Good times..... :) P. On Wednesday, August 5, 2020, 2:46:06 PM EDT, Polytropon wrote: =20 =20 On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 20:26:36 +0200, Jacques Foucry wrote: > Le mercredi 05 ao=C3=BBt 2020 =C3=A0 01:32:02 (-0700), David Christensen = =C3=A0 =C3=A9crit: > > On 2020-08-04 23:55, Greg Marsh wrote: > > > [...] > > > I ask because about 10 years ago, I was involved in a project that ha= d a HUGE storage component. Many of the vendors we brought in to pitch, inc= luding Sun, were promoting tiered storage. Sun in particular were quite pro= ud of this tech. Their system ran ZFS and had a hybrid of ssd, sas & SATA, = with the system dynamically moving data around the different speed/capacity= drives, based on their activity, all transparent to the application or use= r. Most often used data coming from the ssd & sas drives, with less active = files kept on the SATA drives. >=20 >=20 > I remember the same thing when Sun demostrate us ZFS (I was a Sunkskill a= t > this time). But I never tried. Sounds a bit like HSM - hierarchical storage management, implemented on IBM mainframe systems (DFHSM) and on DEC VMS for VAX and Alpha, also has been implemented on AIX and other UNIX operating systems. So decades old stuff is "new" again... ;-) --=20 Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " =20 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Aug 6 20:33:01 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEF043AA2D4 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 20:33:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from greg.marsh@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x82c.google.com (mail-qt1-x82c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BN0YT0893z4Yb4 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 20:33:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from greg.marsh@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x82c.google.com with SMTP id c12so28409499qtn.9 for ; Thu, 06 Aug 2020 13:33:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=1IjaQske7P21y4TY79jJ9voHUqWCQv/TbeujpgS2MLE=; b=dakUOp/IsruY+BtYph/TdtQlZCnqLiqBICD/YdwQHWqkMF3x7E7Wf72URzzgPxrH6I wXEiGJsI3R1gEvprqabAr2YHA1YW0HBXKjXzGErZd4cWDBjJJ+sy+8MgpbXaeSJVXmJF 5MO0ICGbuWIGStH25KRLIBzuKUej/f+2hJnUJnj1XwhKwLyFyGC2xLj+oJMtj5B+6NGR U1QRaOK+4FUI/szI7McI3na6OTT/r8tdcuZH25DwNH6H0sciPsifHrzdD7DPjsLTFKYe 1ZXBLeTxLoWVP4whVEIc8ulyxhiJ/QbLgEjygsZBSeaJYkMEG5h6CcdJ7hUHedua/Fq6 qRlQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=1IjaQske7P21y4TY79jJ9voHUqWCQv/TbeujpgS2MLE=; b=on/SjxEQ9/BB6Ot5KOpEaoB3L/ln0QBe2/9UyBb8NyIuZ0qV64I0RHyz+9nD0dsbIT lgv4WWIubyZ1PIqZ3NNZbV7LdlnrEc8YQ7pQTwsRp2RfyxhEdmGkxIho8TRcJISlM9mm FEMfzVtUKHQYxaQW+qs0ifeoVdLcxhTL4fZQMDKk6k+WsXjeusTFW5YJMUEF2/yvEe+D 3PFLLIhWKSw+v58SKUFHzHJXTU2DFf+uTdGoLUTG7oY5Hb2/1d7qypz+qDdF4VMN4u++ axQ27AwRsB3tu/3hCRgHoVuU/uMCi69l5xjjAXgfMog49YAHvPH2CDUb9u4YA3mTtTQX WRtQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5326eDa+f7uBIrS3L6c/bM42CL302U3TS7WW2JkH1HAtVs3HVM94 O+xZ6nN9ILI2vtvHBLBy+A8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx6EzTIYCRLY41tSo7O/8varT1LXdl005VXhU+KzIwAwX8mCDRxkD+mU+LaYTqxFFcSmjiBMQ== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:4c9a:: with SMTP id j26mr10497491qtv.373.1596745979858; Thu, 06 Aug 2020 13:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [25.108.17.155] ([24.114.48.200]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g49sm6073057qtk.74.2020.08.06.13.32.58 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 06 Aug 2020 13:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Question re ZFS with mixed drive speeds & types From: Greg Marsh X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16G183) In-Reply-To: <1535400648.1041648.1596741688161@mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 16:32:55 -0400 Cc: Jacques Foucry , Polytropon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <039ADEB2-9BE6-4407-89FF-5FAC160102A1@gmail.com> References: <575C4647-8F20-4187-9B74-2D509D31A249@gmail.com> <4fefedad-5b2a-11b8-7b22-3b6162f0404f@holgerdanske.com> <20200805182636.GD48435@mithril> <20200805204546.d1bf410e.freebsd@edvax.de> <1535400648.1041648.1596741688161@mail.yahoo.com> To: Paul Pathiakis X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BN0YT0893z4Yb4 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=dakUOp/I; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of gregmarsh@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::82c as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=gregmarsh@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.62 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.55)[-0.555]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.06)[-1.063]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[24.114.48.200:received]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[freebsd]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::82c:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2020 20:33:01 -0000 Thank you all for your input and memories. I=E2=80=99m glad to hear I=E2=80=99= m not hallucinating having recalled said storage sales pitches. =3D) I suspect what I=E2=80=99ll end up doing is migrating my current array to th= e new system, then experiment with adding mixed drives to a second, testing a= rray.=20 When I started in IT, it was in a big VAX/Alpha OpenVMS using company. The p= rogrammers couldn=E2=80=99t stop talking about how lighting fast the RMS fil= e/record storage system was. I was just an operator at the time.=20 But, when I saw the circulation system (I worked at a newspaper) move from a= single Alpha 233 to a dual 2 GHz Xeon running Linux and ProgressDB move waa= aay slower, was I convinced there had to be better ways.=20 To be fair, I generally blame the crappy off the shelf program that replaced= a decades old, in house developed one. Cheers, Greg Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 6, 2020, at 15:21, Paul Pathiakis via freebsd-questions wrote: >=20 > Wow.... someone as old as me... :) > I had no idea. I remember a lot of those applications in an OS that were b= ased on this theory. I believe there were even a few that indexed tape driv= es with UNIX i-nodes. Good times..... :) > P. >=20 > On Wednesday, August 5, 2020, 2:46:06 PM EDT, Polytropon wrote: =20 >=20 > On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 20:26:36 +0200, Jacques Foucry wrote: >> Le mercredi 05 ao=C3=BBt 2020 =C3=A0 01:32:02 (-0700), David Christensen =C3= =A0 =C3=A9crit: >>> On 2020-08-04 23:55, Greg Marsh wrote: >>>> [...] >>>> I ask because about 10 years ago, I was involved in a project that had a= HUGE storage component. Many of the vendors we brought in to pitch, includi= ng Sun, were promoting tiered storage. Sun in particular were quite proud of= this tech. Their system ran ZFS and had a hybrid of ssd, sas & SATA, with t= he system dynamically moving data around the different speed/capacity drives= , based on their activity, all transparent to the application or user. Most o= ften used data coming from the ssd & sas drives, with less active files kept= on the SATA drives. >>=20 >>=20 >> I remember the same thing when Sun demostrate us ZFS (I was a Sunkskill a= t >> this time). But I never tried. >=20 > Sounds a bit like HSM - hierarchical storage management, > implemented on IBM mainframe systems (DFHSM) and on > DEC VMS for VAX and Alpha, also has been implemented > on AIX and other UNIX operating systems. >=20 > So decades old stuff is "new" again... ;-) >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Polytropon > Magdeburg, Germany > Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 > Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.or= g" =20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.or= g"