From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 28 00:34:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07DF016A4CE; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 00:34:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp0.euronet.nl (smtp0.euronet.nl [194.134.35.141]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBF1A43FAF; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 00:34:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dodell@sitetronics.com) Received: from [192.168.1.42] (zp-c-13e65.mxs.adsl.euronet.nl [81.69.92.101]) by smtp0.euronet.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C05324739; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:34:50 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <200311280014.49356.wes@softweyr.com> References: <32476.1069741443@critter.freebsd.dk> <200311280014.49356.wes@softweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Devon H.O'Dell To: Wes Peters X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org cc: Poul-Henning Kamp Subject: Re: "secure" file flag? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 08:34:54 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:34:50 +0100 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 08:34:54 -0000 > If you want an interesting problem to work on, come up with a solution > to > the keying problem for disk encryption. It somehow needs to allow > automated, unattended reboots during "normal" operations but prevent > attackers from compromising the system. Maybe you could have the > system > send an SMS message when it needs a key, you reply with a one-time key > from your mobile phone? Actually, this is quite similar to what people at Vasco do (http://www.vasco.com). They make devices that (from what I can tell) hash a PIN and a timestamp (along with some other arbitrary values generated by a server, which are optional) and give you a return hash. From what I've seen, the hash is rather elementary and I feel somewhat silly using it to log into my bank. I sent an email to them a while ago; it seems that the security may lie somewhat on the knowledge of the hashing function. But there are definitely devices that do these sorts of things (although the ones from Vasco don't work with GSM, so sending the SMS back would have to go through the phone). Although, I must say, that sending the SMS via the phone is quite insecure as well. If you've the ability to send SMSes, you can most likely fake the address your SMS is coming from, just like you can fake an email. Although, AFAIK, it's a bit more difficult to track the origin of an SMS message. However, most new phones have J2ME capability. I hate Java, but since it's the HLL that we're allowed to use, we could make use of it. After Helix has had some time to be cryptanalyzed, it might be a good candidate for just this kind of application -- a lightweight, fast, easily implementable encryption and authentication algorithm (though it looks promising to me). Until then, some other kind of encryption/authentication could take place. In any case, many phones allow sockets to be created and sent (and if they don't, they most certainly support HTTPS channels). I think an app utilizing this would be a bit more secure in this scenario than one via SMS (or via the Vasco method, I don't have a ton of faith in their closed-source solution). This would be a good, mobile way to provide a one-time key, though. You might even be able to implement it to request keys from multiple administrators assuming the first administrator failed. Who knows. Haven't been following this discussing very closely, so feel free to poke me with a stick if I'm babbling about some obscure tangent. > While you're in there, paint that bikeshed blue. Only if there's not someone painting it already :) > -- > > Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? > > Wes Peters > wes@softweyr.com --Devon