From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sat Aug 25 08:27:28 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9484108202B; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 08:27:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mmacy@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B2FF8E851; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 08:27:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mmacy@freebsd.org) Received: from mail-it0-f44.google.com (mail-it0-f44.google.com [209.85.214.44]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: mmacy) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 528E2DFFA; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 08:27:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mmacy@freebsd.org) Received: by mail-it0-f44.google.com with SMTP id k188-v6so5147361itk.3; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 01:27:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51CEAUjbeJKN2JDmzFhBCf5SsoK04UVDof4BRQ+hjNZjtQ6VmcyB QZoPSnp6bj97yfHQM+vM7zchBzYnBAf3n21moT0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdbzHht3oDJPaowMk2cBWb3pgW3vuyvFzEaDidRZMc0qqGDVBhnjW+tyy0crtiVgtGltdpWcJ+9dTGERRpzXTPI= X-Received: by 2002:a24:704f:: with SMTP id f76-v6mr827257itc.30.1535185646401; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 01:27:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20180824215302.ivfna55jtrtc5trg@freebsd480.station> In-Reply-To: From: Matthew Macy Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2018 01:27:14 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: drm / drm2 removal in 12 To: gurenchan@gmail.com Cc: Warner Losh , Ali , freebsd-current , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2018 08:27:28 -0000 Hi Owen - I understand that you're enthusiastic and you just want what's best for the project. However, there's a couple of points I hope you'll take to heart. First, please read what you sent and think about the tone and word choice. It's extremely negative and critical - you're actively alienating people on the list. You're not going to be successful engaging any open source community or workplace if you choose to communicate like this. Second, this is a volunteer project. One needs to establish a track record of producing patches and working with developers to get them committed. Regardless of how sound your technical position is - you're going to have a hard time being acknowledged if there is no contribution to match. Best wishes. -M On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 4:07 PM blubee blubeeme wrote= : > > > On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 6:26 AM Warner Losh wrote: > >> On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 4:20 PM Matthew Macy wrote: >> >> > On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 14:53 Ali wrote: >> > >> > > On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 06:54:54PM -0700, Matthew Macy wrote: >> > > > Just in case anyone misses the change to UPDATING: >> > > > >> > > > 20180821: >> > > > drm and drm2 have been removed. Users on powerpc, 32-bit >> > > hardware, >> > > > or with GPUs predating Radeon and i915 will need to instal= l >> the >> > > > graphics/drm-legacy-kmod. All other users should be able t= o >> use >> > > > one of the LinuxKPI-based ports: graphics/drm-stable-kmod, >> > > > graphics/drm-next-kmod, graphics/drm-devel-kmod. >> > > > Note that this applies only to 12. >> > > >> > > I see that The removal of drm and drm2 has been reverted on svn. Cou= ld >> > > you please kindly share the reasons behind the re-inclusion? >> > > >> > >> > >> > I can=E2=80=99t really give the blow by blow of internal project drama= , but the >> > gist of it is that =E2=80=9Cbest practices=E2=80=9D (which are not yet= actually >> documented >> > anywhere that I=E2=80=99ve seen) were not followed with regards to the >> deprecation >> > process. Warner and others believe that we can address the objectives = of >> > the drm removal (improving the user experience and communicating that >> > drm/drm2 are _completely_ unsupported apart from continuing to compile= ) >> > through less disruptive means. >> > >> >> Just so. >> >> Our only continued frustration is that we were never given any guidance = by >> > RE or core on said =E2=80=9Cbest practices=E2=80=9D when the discussio= n was taking >> place in >> > May and then those groups behaved as if this were a surprise when the >> > removal happened. I=E2=80=99m cautiously optimistic that this well exp= edite >> > improving communications on those matters. >> > >> >> All the problems that are exposed by this aren't technical. This one is >> social, but no less important. >> >> Warner >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.or= g >> " >> > > I've been watching this debacle for quite some time now and I'd just like > to ask why the rush? > > The graphics team is working very hard to destroy the stability of FreeBS= D > just so that they can force their uncooked work down users throats. > > The Linuxkpi is unstable at best, alpha level software that's constantly > in need of someone to go and fix something on FreeBSD because Linux devs > decided to make some changes or implement a new feature. > > This project: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Use%20linuxkpi%20in%20DRM > Goals > > - Move DRM headers to a similar location as Linux > - > > Use kmalloc() instead of malloc(9) > - Use kref > - > > Use idr and get rid of drm_gem_names.c > - Use PCI API > - Use Linux locking primitives > > is garbage, if you want to use develop Linux code and use Linux then go d= o > that on Linux. > > Are these guys insane and please avoid the nonsense about you're doing > this in your spare time. > > If you cannot devote the resources to do something right then don't do it > at all. > > Keep that stuff in to yourself or anyone crazy enough to follow those > steps to get it up and running, you guys cannot expect to contaminate the > entire FreeBSD project for this mess. > > This is nonsense and I hope that more people who see it as such would say > so and stop having these guys forcing this crap; it's maintenance hell wh= o > will maintain it if they decide to leave? > > Best, > Owen > >