From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 17 21:49:56 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5181106566B for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 21:49:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mark@exonetric.com) Received: from relay0.exonetric.net (relay0.exonetric.net [82.138.248.161]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69F4C8FC13 for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 21:49:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.24] (unknown [78.86.207.85]) by relay0.exonetric.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50F2C5722F; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 21:27:25 +0000 (GMT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1251.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Mark Blackman In-Reply-To: <9E283165-BD56-4DBF-9799-757C475815FB@bsdimp.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 21:27:24 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <81A5F99A-CA8B-4BA9-936C-51F5421460AC@exonetric.com> References: <9E283165-BD56-4DBF-9799-757C475815FB@bsdimp.com> To: Warner Losh X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1251.1) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mark Felder Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 21:49:56 -0000 On 17 Jan 2012, at 21:09, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 > On Jan 17, 2012, at 11:12 AM, John Kozubik wrote: >> Again, I'm not suggesting more snapshots - I am suggesting more real, = bona fide releases. This will help people. >=20 > I tend to agree with you. Our release engineering process isn't = serving the needs of users as much as it once did. When Walnut Creek = was running release engineering, we had releases often because they = wanted to make money from their subscriptions. This produced reasonably = spaced minor releases and except for 4-5, decently spaced major = releases. Even after the torch passed from walnut creek to others, = there was still either residual pressures to make the releases happen, = or inherited mindset that keep on the same pace. >=20 > Today we have lost our way. We have no major vendor pushing the = process along to make it happen faster.=20 What exactly did the major vendor to push things along? Keep nagging? I'd have thought PC-BSD and iXsystems are the natural people to to take = over that role in any case. The FreeBSD foundation seems less interested in the "for = end-users" angle as well. - Mark=