From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 5 12:17:22 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAA4816A4CF for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:17:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from voyager.twobirds.us (c-24-18-222-18.client.comcast.net [24.18.222.18]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BE4243D1D for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:17:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from joshua@twobirds.us) Received: from joshua by voyager.twobirds.us with local (Exim 4.30; FreeBSD) id 1Azid4-0001Ww-F3; Sat, 06 Mar 2004 12:42:38 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:42:38 -0800 From: Joshua Lokken To: Charles McManis Message-ID: <20040306204238.GA4100@voyager.swabbies.org> Mail-Followup-To: Charles McManis , "Loren M. Lang" , FreeBSD Mailing list References: <20040305081609.GA1378@alzatex.com> <200403051152.58550.cmcmanis@mcmanis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200403051152.58550.cmcmanis@mcmanis.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: "Loren M. Lang" cc: FreeBSD Mailing list Subject: Re: New Users Learning FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 20:17:23 -0000 * Charles McManis [2004-03-06 11:48]: > My less than complimentary thought is that they all suck, but that's only > because 99% of the developers who are writing code for *Linux/*BSD don't > really care about the "new user experience." They care about whatever it is > they are developing. > > Thus the difference between say "standard install" from a FreeBSD distro CD > and sticking a Windows XP install CD into your computer is vastly different > in favor of the Microsoft product. OTOH, this is a good example of why I was initially attracted to FreeBSD. I would much rather know just what's going on during an installation than knowing only that "Installation will complete in 37 minutes..." When I see that, my first thought is, 'what the heck could possibly be taking 37 minutes?' But, of course, I can't find out. All I get are repeating messages about how Windows XP is going to revolutionize my desktop experience. What is that? No, to most people, ncurses isn't as pretty as a Windows GUI, but give me sysinstall anyday. > In a weird and scary way I helped contribute to this because I worked at Sun > back in the day when Sun was doing a 386 based workstation and the folks who > worked in Chelmsford were trying to put a much better "face" on SunOS > (4.0.2). Like other people in the systems group I was fairly disparaging > about "gratuitous changes" to hide unnecessary things from the user (Sun East > had a splash screen with a "thermometer" display like you see in Win9x/NT/XP > these days. I didn't realize just how ahead of the game they were. I look > back today and realize I made a big mistake by not being more supportive of > their efforts. It doesn't seem like a splash screen can really tell you much about the quality of a piece of software or an OS. > To your direct question, I think newbies should install something tha someone > they know has already installed and become experienced on. Otherwise the > initial frustration of not being to get anywhere until it "clicks" can really OTOH, the initial frustration may just drive you to read the manual, a good idea when starting off with any piece of technology. My newbie experience has been (while frustrating at times) supremely rewarding due to the hard work of the folks that have put together the FreeBSD documentation, official and otherwise. The folks here at questions are extremely helpful, too. Another resource that makes my newbie experience a positive one. > turn them off to the thought of Open Source based systems. A friend of mine, > an engineer, spent a really rough day trying to get FreeBSD running on his > laptop. Debian Linux however came right up. I've been more successful getting > NetBSD and FreeBSD running, but I've got a BSD background so don't count as a > "newbie" so much (grumpy old fart perhaps, but not a newbie :-) > > --Chuck Yes, I would agree that FreeBSD is not for the faint- of-heart, but it's also really not that 'difficult' to use. Again, some reading is NECESSARY. If you want an absolute lack-of-effort install, then yes, perhaps Windows XP is a good choice of OS, however, if you're curious about FreeBSD, which the OP obviously is, then by all means, jump on in! The water's great! > On Friday 05 March 2004 00:16, Loren M. Lang wrote: > > I am curious what some newbies experiences were with FreeBSD who have > > have no unix experience before. I have someone that I might be setting > > up a unix workstation of some kind for and I'm debating whether I should > > use FreeBSD or some Linux distro like mandrake or debian. I will be > > there most of the time to help if needed as this is for work and will > > not be his home desktop, at least not yet. He only have some experience > > with using dos and windoze, but he does have some technical background > > with computers. -- Joshua There's another way to survive. Mutual trust -- and help. -- Kirk, "Day of the Dove", stardate unknown