From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 17 22:25:45 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36EAF106566C for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 22:25:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mattjeet@gmail.com) Received: from mail-gy0-f182.google.com (mail-gy0-f182.google.com [209.85.160.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4B9F8FC0C for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 22:25:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by ghy10 with SMTP id 10so495236ghy.13 for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 14:25:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=LP7cJC8rpzdJA0SvAqktLtlVF7xhVcUO/SoOxcN+bjc=; b=xb71bc3MHmbCgkYuqL4/rcZVFjlzBY80XGnVacsgDkdOkyDZHBVNFqynPrbRWWI+y1 BgwffprdD32sarUyNa9+VrcDhAtN+6BTMN2MZSHsClvRv3w3K89VEvFGq4/bBt2J7qHp Q/Fo3cwM0Zqt2NDTPJzz1nFksBmbz6FY8toi8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.193.41 with SMTP id j29mr27924567yhn.12.1326837314932; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 13:55:14 -0800 (PST) Sender: mattjeet@gmail.com Received: by 10.101.46.10 with HTTP; Tue, 17 Jan 2012 13:55:14 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <81A5F99A-CA8B-4BA9-936C-51F5421460AC@exonetric.com> References: <9E283165-BD56-4DBF-9799-757C475815FB@bsdimp.com> <81A5F99A-CA8B-4BA9-936C-51F5421460AC@exonetric.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 13:55:14 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: RpVNbYx5rDBBoWXwFX-GvPgS-GE Message-ID: From: Matt Olander To: Mark Blackman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mark Felder Subject: Re: FreeBSD has serious problems with focus, longevity, and lifecycle X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: matt@ixsystems.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 22:25:45 -0000 On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Mark Blackman wrote: > On 17 Jan 2012, at 21:09, Warner Losh wrote: > >> >> On Jan 17, 2012, at 11:12 AM, John Kozubik wrote: >>> Again, I'm not suggesting more snapshots - I am suggesting more real, b= ona fide releases. =A0This will help people. >> >> I tend to agree with you. =A0Our release engineering process isn't servi= ng the needs of users as much as it once did. =A0When Walnut Creek was runn= ing release engineering, we had releases often because they wanted to make = money from their subscriptions. =A0This produced reasonably spaced minor re= leases and except for 4-5, decently spaced major releases. =A0Even after th= e torch passed from walnut creek to others, there was still either residual= pressures to make the releases happen, or inherited mindset that keep on t= he same pace. >> >> Today we have lost our way. =A0We have no major vendor pushing the proce= ss along to make it happen faster. > > What exactly did the major vendor to push things along? Keep nagging? > > I'd have thought PC-BSD and iXsystems are the natural people to to take o= ver that role in any > case. =A0 The FreeBSD foundation seems =A0less interested in the "for end= -users" angle as well. We'd be happy to sponsor a full-time employee at the Mall to handle rolling -STABLE into release a few more times per year. We might need a bit of help maintaining a long term release but we think it's a pretty good idea all the way around. Cheers, -matt