From owner-freebsd-stable Thu Oct 14 1:21:44 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from pinky.plambert.net (pinky.magiclemurs.com [205.219.88.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 337DD14CE1 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 01:21:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from plambert@pinky.plambert.net) Received: (from plambert@localhost) by pinky.plambert.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA17805 for stable@freebsd.org; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 01:21:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from plambert) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 01:21:37 -0700 From: "Paul M . Lambert" To: stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Roasting Newbies Message-ID: <19991014012137.C16450@pinky.plambert.net> References: <199910091303.JAA33525@blackhelicopters.org> <19991009211015.A736@pinky.magiclemurs.com> <380300D8.9C7965BF@newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <380300D8.9C7965BF@newsguy.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Brad Knowles wrote: > > > > IMO, an attempted post by any non-subscribed user to any freebsd > > mailing list other than -questions should get this kind of an > > automated response. > > Many of the non-subscribed posters are subscribed developers using > alternate accounts. They would not be happy in the hypothetical case > of this being implemented. > Perhaps there is a better idea. There are a number of people on the lists who are technically competent and have a reasonable understanding of the way FreeBSD works. They can easily answer most of the newbies' questions and point them (gently at first, and later with the Thunderous LART of Righteousness) to the correct places to get their answers. Many of these people are currently doing this. There are a number of people on the lists who are even more technically competent, or perhaps equally competent but differently inclined, who can leap tall device drivers in a single bound, and have the in-depth knowledge necessary to solve amazingly specific problems. The latter group are the people we're trying to protect, if I understand things correctly. I don't want the people with commit access to have to wade through piles of messages about "how do I get FreeBSD to install on my Winblows '02 box?" when they'd be happier (and more productive--I'm being essentially selfish here ;-) looking at stack traces and so forth. We can't scare the latter group away by exposing them to the newbies. We can't scare the newbies away by exposing them to the latter group. What if the former group (the "competents") were to step in as a line of defense for the latter group (the "gurus"). I use the names lightly, for lack of a better set of labels. Specifically, when a newbie sends a question to the list, perhaps someone who is pretty sure they know the answer and pretty sure they have time to field it, could simply reply. I, for example, am useless to the FreeBSD movement in most ways. I can read the lists, and understand what's being said, but I couldn't write a piece of C to save my life. I _could_, however, put together a boilerplate set of replies and throw them at people when they needed them. Now, you're all thinking, "How is this different from the way things work now? Silly plambert, no biscuit." However, what if, in my reply, I were to make it a _real_ reply (I and my peers probably know how to do that, and probably use mailers that do it for us) with an appropriate In-Reply-To: header. So it threads correctly. And we could add a "X-Handled:" header. Or "[HANDLED]" to the Subject:. Why? So that the people who don't care to read questions that have been asked and answered before can ignore that entire thread. Heck, with some creativity, most of the "gurus" could delete threads that have been handled. So they wouldn't have to deal with them. The "gurus" that don't have threaded email readers could still fake it... It'd be easy enough to make procmail and perl go back and add the header and/or subject-tag to the original message if a reply comes through with the header and/or subject-tag. Now, this is just an idea I'm having late at night. There are millions of reasons why it can't work. I just can't come up with them at the moment. I'm sure someone will tell me. ;-) But the advantages are that things still work basically the same as they do now. Anyone can post. Anyone can answer any question. Newbies get swift responses. Etc. I'm sure there will be differences of opinion on whether given topics are handled, but those differences of opinion will exist in any system. --plambert -- I hate bombs, terrorism, fear, plans, future and past injustices, manifestos, popular sentiment, ignition, timetables, meetings, and poorly adjusted weasels. A warm hello to my friends and fans in domestic surveillance! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message