From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Aug 23 03:27:31 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4033F1065693 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 03:27:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from cpoproxy1-pub.bluehost.com (cpoproxy1-pub.bluehost.com [69.89.21.11]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 107928FC08 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2010 03:27:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 7600 invoked by uid 0); 23 Aug 2010 03:27:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by cpoproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 23 Aug 2010 03:27:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=apotheon.com; h=Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Mail-Followup-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:X-Identified-User; b=jmDNRZPPYhlXspqlWCvpjywxBDoIBsvfoMnVRp/EQqSz9mhyNdtU4hBqxBPJV6RWIyn7gbSEq277cpiZga6hLzrBeognwmdY9peMfYoLpnlduraZLPTDvAkL31F9TiYW; Received: from c-24-8-180-234.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.8.180.234] helo=kukaburra.hydra) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OnNh3-0005Hh-7w for freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org; Sun, 22 Aug 2010 21:27:30 -0600 Received: by kukaburra.hydra (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sun, 22 Aug 2010 21:24:53 -0600 Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 21:24:53 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20100823032453.GA61711@guilt.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: <008c01cb425a$2603bc60$720b3520$@com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="IJpNTDwzlM2Ie8A6" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <008c01cb425a$2603bc60$720b3520$@com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.org} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with ren@apotheon.org} Cc: Subject: Re: Is this bunk. X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 03:27:31 -0000 --IJpNTDwzlM2Ie8A6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 01:25:34AM +0100, Garry wrote: > This is a conversation held on a UK group page, can you confirm or deny t= his > as twaddle. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Mac OS X is basically BSD that's been appleised (serious vendor lock-in), > they do give a little back to BSDs, but have made sure that BSDs can't get > much off of them, but they can get a lot out of BSD. My understanding is that it's a Mach kernel with some FreeBSD userland that has since been worked over with a rake, producing the Darwin OS. Following that, Apple dropped a load of proprietary stuff on top of Darwin to produce MacOS X. >=20 > Also, Windows uses (or used to use) a BSD stack for networking for > instance. This is true. >=20 > So, in supporting/using BDS i would enevatibaly end up writing code for i= t, > or filing bugs or whatever. > (I have assisted with a few Linux drivers and written kernel patches, as > well as working on things like DirectX 3D 9 for Wine and work on KDE etc.= ..) Good for you. >=20 > Having seen how BDS license software has been used, to create highly tied > in, almost crippled proprietary software, I do not feel that I can support > software developed under such licenses. Why not? Tell me what benefit is gained by not using FreeBSD, or what benefit is lost by discouraging others from using your technology. >=20 > Web-Kit has actually worked quite well as an open system, even though App= le > done a hostile take over of the project from KHTML in KDE. > So, the GPL has worked to produce an open product in Web-kit but the BSD > license has lead to vendor lock-in on the part of Microsoft and most > significantly Apple. WebKit is actually not GPLed. It's a combination (at least primarily) of the LGPL and the BSD License. I guess you should stop using any WebKit based browser if you don't like the BSD License. >=20 > This does not mean to say that I have a problem with the quality of the c= ode > in BSD, I just feel that the license is counter productive. In what way is it counterproductive? What goal do you want to serve that the BSD License hinders? Perhaps you should consider some alternative views of the matter. For instance, there's . . . * Copyfree (an alternative to Copyright and Copyleft): http://copyfree.org * Software Liberation Front (counter-copyleft advocacy): http://softwareliberationfront.org * Choose the Right Licensing Model for Security Software: http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/security/?p=3D610 * Copyfree vs. Copyleft: http://www.wikivs.com/wiki/Copyfree_vs_Copyleft * BSD/Copyfree vs. Corporate Copyleft: http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=3D622 I have found that it's really the GPL, and copyleft licensing in general, that is counterproductive. It has been used to launch attacks on small open source projects, employ anticompetitive and monopolistic business tactics, and keep open source code from being used in other open source projects. In fact, copyleft licenses tend to be mutually incompatible. They prohibit proprietary software projects from using their code, and they also prohibit copyfree software projects (such as the FreeBSD project) from using their code (at least directly) -- but they also prohibit copyleft projects that use a different copyleft license from using their code. I find the hypocrisy rather odious. I suppose your tastes may differ. --=20 Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] --IJpNTDwzlM2Ie8A6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkxx6gUACgkQ9mn/Pj01uKVq2wCeM8jnyB0q8Asx0lC9DL3KcUXF ZOsAnA1+cn7kGUggn84452EiZi5r1hok =dnSx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --IJpNTDwzlM2Ie8A6--