From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sat Oct 5 07:58:04 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F2012A7B6 for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2019 07:58:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from agapon@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-f68.google.com (mail-lf1-f68.google.com [209.85.167.68]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46lfHb16mtz4RNV for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2019 07:58:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from agapon@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-f68.google.com with SMTP id u28so6014849lfc.5 for ; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 00:58:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PInfDyKBtJfsEvWlahxGDG0OQ+7nIpKglHdx2VdEvpA=; b=NAu5nH9mTnUaDsNKNX50ZK7Jlv2npiBAx+VmamYJLJjh34IhyIvTb574F4doXA9cWE zl+aKKmenLbBdSFESUiiJiNqcuSRykzc0SQH+BAmVz91bsBnf0LgBkrQe5R70mixUtq3 emk6602EzglmP80ibqPIvwMCJBYczjJfC+vntr9HxdRkksTlbz3JvinmxWzgLR5+arOR Ngaeam0FLiYi8p/rnakTAQgawEkcWbVvj2JZFkgynL9rO5yxhWQmCtPku317JL9OUz4o KPwi9hc5IEmQBnvOyq3u1sdI2K+sFXomeNpqVhIGyWS/4WfmXcGE26J6Kbsk6e1ieCoi /RCg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAU47+xfvUMtXsnfhTbtWon2lIhAMOZJsgriqjAorykE8lr8zBt3 o84XzF1bTrdK8wVPqDIIOrCrYk5Ju8Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwEPcpV/EPSv/hFUZ72liGUWVakhACX281sXPUt4Nm6oVrHORNtogMjhaQ0UVIHdIy8Q1QnbQ== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4853:: with SMTP id 19mr11008786lfy.69.1570262280044; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 00:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.88] (east.meadow.volia.net. [93.72.151.96]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id w27sm1733476ljd.55.2019.10.05.00.57.58 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 05 Oct 2019 00:57:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: ZFS with 32-bit, non-x86 kernel To: Justin Hibbits , Dennis Clarke Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <2264fde0-d386-518f-2bdb-2b86afe1faf3@blastwave.org> <20191004142405.0303950f@ralga.knownspace> From: Andriy Gapon Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=avg@FreeBSD.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFm4LIgBEADNB/3lT7f15UKeQ52xCFQx/GqHkSxEdVyLFZTmY3KyNPQGBtyvVyBfprJ7 mAeXZWfhat6cKNRAGZcL5EmewdQuUfQfBdYmKjbw3a9GFDsDNuhDA2QwFt8BmkiVMRYyvI7l N0eVzszWCUgdc3qqM6qqcgBaqsVmJluwpvwp4ZBXmch5BgDDDb1MPO8AZ2QZfIQmplkj8Y6Z AiNMknkmgaekIINSJX8IzRzKD5WwMsin70psE8dpL/iBsA2cpJGzWMObVTtCxeDKlBCNqM1i gTXta1ukdUT7JgLEFZk9ceYQQMJJtUwzWu1UHfZn0Fs29HTqawfWPSZVbulbrnu5q55R4PlQ /xURkWQUTyDpqUvb4JK371zhepXiXDwrrpnyyZABm3SFLkk2bHlheeKU6Yql4pcmSVym1AS4 dV8y0oHAfdlSCF6tpOPf2+K9nW1CFA8b/tw4oJBTtfZ1kxXOMdyZU5fiG7xb1qDgpQKgHUX8 7Rd2T1UVLVeuhYlXNw2F+a2ucY+cMoqz3LtpksUiBppJhw099gEXehcN2JbUZ2TueJdt1FdS ztnZmsHUXLxrRBtGwqnFL7GSd6snpGIKuuL305iaOGODbb9c7ne1JqBbkw1wh8ci6vvwGlzx rexzimRaBzJxlkjNfMx8WpCvYebGMydNoeEtkWldtjTNVsUAtQARAQABtB5BbmRyaXkgR2Fw b24gPGF2Z0BGcmVlQlNELm9yZz6JAlQEEwEIAD4WIQS+LEO7ngQnXA4Bjr538m7TUc1yjwUC WbgsiAIbIwUJBaOagAULCQgHAgYVCAkKCwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRB38m7TUc1yj+JAEACV l9AK/nOWAt/9cufV2fRj0hdOqB1aCshtSrwHk/exXsDa4/FkmegxXQGY+3GWX3deIyesbVRL rYdtdK0dqJyT1SBqXK1h3/at9rxr9GQA6KWOxTjUFURsU7ok/6SIlm8uLRPNKO+yq0GDjgaO LzN+xykuBA0FlhQAXJnpZLcVfPJdWv7sSHGedL5ln8P8rxR+XnmsA5TUaaPcbhTB+mG+iKFj GghASDSfGqLWFPBlX/fpXikBDZ1gvOr8nyMY9nXhgfXpq3B6QCRYKPy58ChrZ5weeJZ29b7/ QdEO8NFNWHjSD9meiLdWQaqo9Y7uUxN3wySc/YUZxtS0bhAd8zJdNPsJYG8sXgKjeBQMVGuT eCAJFEYJqbwWvIXMfVWop4+O4xB+z2YE3jAbG/9tB/GSnQdVSj3G8MS80iLS58frnt+RSEw/ psahrfh0dh6SFHttE049xYiC+cM8J27Aaf0i9RflyITq57NuJm+AHJoU9SQUkIF0nc6lfA+o JRiyRlHZHKoRQkIg4aiKaZSWjQYRl5Txl0IZUP1dSWMX4s3XTMurC/pnja45dge/4ESOtJ9R 8XuIWg45Oq6MeIWdjKddGhRj3OohsltKgkEU3eLKYtB6qRTQypHHUawCXz88uYt5e3w4V16H lCpSTZV/EVHnNe45FVBlvK7k7HFfDDkryLkCDQRZuCyIARAAlq0slcsVboY/+IUJdcbEiJRW be9HKVz4SUchq0z9MZPX/0dcnvz/gkyYA+OuM78dNS7Mbby5dTvOqfpLJfCuhaNYOhlE0wY+ 1T6Tf1f4c/uA3U/YiadukQ3+6TJuYGAdRZD5EqYFIkreARTVWg87N9g0fT9BEqLw9lJtEGDY EWUE7L++B8o4uu3LQFEYxcrb4K/WKmgtmFcm77s0IKDrfcX4doV92QTIpLiRxcOmCC/OCYuO jB1oaaqXQzZrCutXRK0L5XN1Y1PYjIrEzHMIXmCDlLYnpFkK+itlXwlE2ZQxkfMruCWdQXye syl2fynAe8hvp7Mms9qU2r2K9EcJiR5N1t1C2/kTKNUhcRv7Yd/vwusK7BqJbhlng5ZgRx0m WxdntU/JLEntz3QBsBsWM9Y9wf2V4tLv6/DuDBta781RsCB/UrU2zNuOEkSixlUiHxw1dccI 6CVlaWkkJBxmHX22GdDFrcjvwMNIbbyfQLuBq6IOh8nvu9vuItup7qemDG3Ms6TVwA7BD3j+ 3fGprtyW8Fd/RR2bW2+LWkMrqHffAr6Y6V3h5kd2G9Q8ZWpEJk+LG6Mk3fhZhmCnHhDu6CwN MeUvxXDVO+fqc3JjFm5OxhmfVeJKrbCEUJyM8ESWLoNHLqjywdZga4Q7P12g8DUQ1mRxYg/L HgZY3zfKOqcAEQEAAYkCPAQYAQgAJhYhBL4sQ7ueBCdcDgGOvnfybtNRzXKPBQJZuCyIAhsM BQkFo5qAAAoJEHfybtNRzXKPBVwQAKfFy9P7N3OsLDMB56A4Kf+ZT+d5cIx0Yiaf4n6w7m3i ImHHHk9FIetI4Xe54a2IXh4Bq5UkAGY0667eIs+Z1Ea6I2i27Sdo7DxGwq09Qnm/Y65ADvXs 3aBvokCcm7FsM1wky395m8xUos1681oV5oxgqeRI8/76qy0hD9WR65UW+HQgZRIcIjSel9vR XDaD2HLGPTTGr7u4v00UeTMs6qvPsa2PJagogrKY8RXdFtXvweQFz78NbXhluwix2Tb9ETPk LIpDrtzV73CaE2aqBG/KrboXT2C67BgFtnk7T7Y7iKq4/XvEdDWscz2wws91BOXuMMd4c/c4 OmGW9m3RBLufFrOag1q5yUS9QbFfyqL6dftJP3Zq/xe+mr7sbWbhPVCQFrH3r26mpmy841ym dwQnNcsbIGiBASBSKksOvIDYKa2Wy8htPmWFTEOPRpFXdGQ27awcjjnB42nngyCK5ukZDHi6 w0qK5DNQQCkiweevCIC6wc3p67jl1EMFY5+z+zdTPb3h7LeVnGqW0qBQl99vVFgzLxchKcl0 R/paSFgwqXCZhAKMuUHncJuynDOP7z5LirUeFI8qsBAJi1rXpQoLJTVcW72swZ42IdPiboqx NbTMiNOiE36GqMcTPfKylCbF45JNX4nF9ElM0E+Y8gi4cizJYBRr2FBJgay0b9Cp Message-ID: <1cd24974-09da-3784-bad6-5f948b390acc@FreeBSD.org> Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2019 10:57:57 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20191004142405.0303950f@ralga.knownspace> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 46lfHb16mtz4RNV X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of agapon@gmail.com designates 209.85.167.68 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=agapon@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.09 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[avg@FreeBSD.org,agapon@gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[96.151.72.93.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[avg@FreeBSD.org,agapon@gmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[68.167.85.209.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-1.09)[ip: (0.01), ipnet: 209.85.128.0/17(-3.27), asn: 15169(-2.15), country: US(-0.05)]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[68.167.85.209.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2019 07:58:04 -0000 On 04/10/2019 22:24, Justin Hibbits wrote: > On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 15:06:52 -0400 > Dennis Clarke wrote: > >> On 10/4/19 10:05 AM, Andriy Gapon wrote: >>> >>> Does anyone use ZFS with a 32-bit kernel, that is also not i386 ? >>> If you do, could you please let me know? Along with uname -rmp >>> output. Thank you! >>> >> >> I don't know if that has even been attempted by anyone. The ZIL and >> ZFS log comonents require substantial amounts of memory and I am not >> aware of anyone with arm devices that have 8GB+ of memory. I have had >> FreeBSD current on RISC-V running fairly well with ZFS however that >> was a purely rv64imafdc architecture. >> >> I will watch this thread with curiosity. >> >> > > I did try using ZFS on 32-bit powerpc (8GB RAM), and even got a bugfix > pushed into the ZFS/Illumos repo for it, but it was too unstable to be > usable. I'd love to try again later though. The instability was not surprising, IMO. ZFS depends on 64-bit atomic operations. For platforms that do not provide them there is an attempt to emulate them, but it is not quite consistent. In particular, reads are just plain reads on all platforms, so torn values can be seen on all 32-bit platforms. But it's easier to fix those of them that have 64-bit operations. I am thinking about proposing to remove ZFS support from platforms that do not provide 64-bit atomics for the kernel. I think that those are 32-bit powerpc-s and some flavors of 32-bit mips, but I am quite confused about the latter. There are so many of them: mips.mips, mipsel, mipshf, mipselhf, mipsn32. -- Andriy Gapon