From owner-freebsd-isp Fri Apr 11 12:34:45 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA14084 for isp-outgoing; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pernet.net (mail.pernet.net [205.229.0.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14078 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 12:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office.pernet.net (office.pernet.net [205.229.0.2]) by mail.pernet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA09023; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 14:41:47 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 13:32:09 +0000 (GMT) From: Neal Reply-To: neal@pernet.net To: Vincent Poy cc: isp@freebsd.org Subject: Re: TS Holy War (was Re: Some advice needed.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-isp@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 11 Apr 1997, Vincent Poy wrote: > On Fri, 11 Apr 1997, Neal wrote: > > > My general impression of Annex has been a screamed NO. But bear in mind > > that's just an impression. > > Hmm, any reasoning behind this though? Not really, just a "feel". I probably should have thought more before typing that. The jury is instructed to ignore the remark. > > > Now, a couple little thoughts just from me: > > > > 1:If you're strapped for cash, don't even try to start. You need to be > > able to count on anywhere from $100,000-300,000 to run. > > Does it really take that much? How does the money break down? Yes. Easily. I believe we're at $500,000 now. The problem is that it takes forever(we've been going to >2 years, and we're just now "close") to break even. Breakdown: $3k/month T1 to net $325/month per PRI(or $410 per 23 analog lines) $1000/month office space, etc.(rent, utilities) $5k+ employees. You save on this if you go with no help, but it sucks. = $9k/month expenses without leasing equipment. Startup equipment: $17k Max 4000. $1500 Cisco 2501. $???? computers/servers(at least 1, call it $2k per) = $20k startup. You really need more, i.e. seperate news/mail/web. Of course, I _might_ be inflating the number here. It was actually considerably more expensive to do this two years ago. But I'm not considering startup costs for the T1 or PRI. > > > 2:As odd as this sound, make friends with the phone company. We get ISDN > > B channels for $13/month. Do you think they would have "found" this > > tariff if I was pissed at them? > > Doesn't it actually cost for incoming for ISDN lines? No. We pay $325/month/PRI with no "per usage" pricing. The hitch is it's incoming only, but I think we'll live. Outgoing is $.05/minute. > > > 3:Decide what you want to do beforehand. If you WANT to be a big-1000 > > line ISP, go ahead and start with a PM3 or MAX or whatever you decide > > on. But if you are going to stay small and don't think you can afford > > $14000 for 48 analog lines, look into a BSD box or something equivilant. > > Hmmm, what about if you wanted to start out small and then expand > as business grows? > That's my argument about using BSD boxes. They're cheaper to start up with. When you get to the point that $14000 doesn't phase you, THEN you get the big boxes. > > 4:Avoid telebit like the plague. If you talk to uunet, they'll try and > > sell you one. Don't buy. I speak from experience. > > Hmmm, you're talking about the router or the terminal server or > their modems? > Yes :). I've used their "terminal server". I did some work with a University that had Telebit modems that locked up about 8 times a day. I wasn't aware they made a router. The terminal server was a 386sx-16. Now its a 486dx2-66(I believe). Their tech support was miserable then(it might be better now, this was 1.5 year ago). They had a callback system. They would "try" to get back to you within three days. > > Cheers, > Vince - vince@MCESTATE.COM - vince@GAIANET.NET ________ __ ____ > Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ] > GaiaNet Corporation - M & C Estate / / / / | / | __] ] > Beverly Hills, California USA 90210 / / / / / |/ / | __] ] > HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____] > > > -- Neal Rigney, PERnet Communications, (409)729-4638 neal@mail.pernet.net