Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 09:53:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" <rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> To: jhs@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de (Julian Howard Stacey) Cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Crypt code summary(2). Message-ID: <199506281653.JAA09801@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> In-Reply-To: <199506260138.DAA22883@vector.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> from "Julian Howard Stacey" at Jun 26, 95 03:38:07 am
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> > > Rod, cc current@freebsd.org > > Re. your: > > > After that is done we would need a machine running > > FreeBSD to set up the cvs/ctm/sup stuff on, heck if I am going to try > > and port that to any other platform or even try!!! > > Thank you for having considered helping set up the > international FreeBSD crypt site, but please do Not do this ! > It should not be created or administered by people subject to USA law. Okay, fine by me, one less thing for me to do! > Purpose of the site is to achieve something that would be illegal if > done under USA legal jurisdiction, but is perfectly legal under other ... > > I wrote that I'd deny information about our crypt sources etc, You wrote that you suggest we ``all'' deny information, big difference between what YOU do and what you ask US to do!! > to any USA government official. You seemed to think that illegal ?. Wrong. > The site is to be outside the USA to avoid USA law. > We Britons, Germans & S.Africans etc outside the USA are Not subject to > USA law. As long as you keep your communications and actions totally outside of the USA that is true. But your suggestion that we all refuse to talk to the feds about this crypto stuff would, with reasonable high probability, land a US citizen doing that in jail. > My non co-operation with the USA government would be totally legal. Yes, yours is, mine is not. Your original statement was far to broad. > If any USA law enforcement person shows up out of USA jurisdiction to question > anyone involved in the new site, we can call the police to forcibly remove > USA Feds from our territory, thus USA officials cannot force us to divulge > information that might prejudice our USA FreeBSD friends. You will find that if the USA feds are going to try to do something out of the USA jurisdiction they would have already contacted your police and your police will probably be right there with them to take action on behalf of the USA's officiers. Have you ever heard of mutual enforcement agreements? > No USA citizen or resident should have write access to any of the crypt areas > of the international site. With no write access, the USA government cannot > prosecute you for aiding & abetting, also the International site is free from > the danger of having the USA govt. say to one of its residents or citizens: > Either you rlogin to SA/Germany right now, & delete that crypt > stuff, or we're gonna' arrest you for [whatever they choose]. > > Please do not create a conflict of interest by involving yourself with the > set up or admin of this site, it could compromise you with the US authorities, > would create a conflict of interest, & would detract from the objective of > a site independent of USA jurisdiction. Okay, fine, I am no longer involved... > Ref. the Aachen site, you asked me to let kuku@ speak for himself, hopefully > he will, meantime I can tell you about a year or so ago he gave several > of us facilities on that machine explicitly so we could create a 2nd site. And I did go over there, and set some things up, and do have write access to bits over there, and did even break a few laws doing it but cleaned up after myself. So, you might say, this machine is now tainted as I was the one who setup sup and cvs over there :-(. > We had no intention to restrict crypt code access, rather the opposite > in fact. > (The work didn't get done for a variety of reasons, but it's still on my > list). > > I'd really appreciate if you just did crypt code integration issues (where you > seem to be making progress :-), and left the issue of foreign sites & > international law to us, the `foreign' site owners of the rest of the planet, > we have our own laws, & intrusion of USA law is offensive. > > The safest solution to the problem the USA government has forced on us all, > is if the citizens of the rest of the world arrange their own crypt site & > mail list etc, without `write access' involvement of USA citizens or > residents. > If a USA citizen or resident is asked to help set up or admin a non USA crypt > site, please refer the invitation to the lists, for non > USA citizens or residents to work on instead. Under those conditions the Aachen site of kuku@ is tainted and can not be used. > > Of course, if someone in SA were to ask someone in the USA to > set up a strawberry fruit crop CVS database, & after he'd finished, & had > trained his successor, & had his write access removed, ... if at that point > the site owners suddenly changed their site usage, then used it for ... well > perhaps storing computer programs or something ... well, the guy who had done > the initial install for strawberries might be in the clear > (though it would still be be better if he'd not done the set up). > (I mention this just in case any USA regulated person feels a burning > desperate desire to config a CVS system somewhere, & is 110% certain that no > one else on the planet outside the USA is available for the job ;-) > > Julian Stacey, Germany. > Recommended <jhs@freebsd.org>, Alternate <jhs@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD
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