From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Dec 11 14:49:41 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B7821333F4D for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 14:49:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from merlyn@geeks.org) Received: from mail.geeks.org (mail.geeks.org [IPv6:2001:4980:3333:1::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CBA1712DB for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 14:49:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from merlyn@geeks.org) Received: from mail.geeks.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by after-clamsmtpd.geeks.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E1A0110219; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 08:49:33 -0600 (CST) Received: by mail.geeks.org (Postfix, from userid 1003) id F1A3311020A; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 08:49:32 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 08:49:32 -0600 From: Doug McIntyre To: Alejandro Imass Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: freebsd or linux Message-ID: <20181211144932.GB42173@geeks.org> References: <20181211041849.GA75666@geeks.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CBA1712DB X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.06 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.73)[0.730,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[geeks.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.97)[0.965,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: asg.geeks.org]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.96)[0.956,0]; IP_SCORE(0.72)[asn: 7753(3.67), country: US(-0.09)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7753, ipnet:2001:4980::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Server: mx1.freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 14:49:41 -0000 On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 12:51:31AM -0500, Alejandro Imass wrote: > Some things are curious though. The initial release date of NeXT is 1989 > (derived from 4.3BSD-Tahoe released in 1988) but I think that it still had > some AT&T code in it so you still had to obtain a license from AT&T to run > any form of BSD. So AT&T did license to NeXT in one form or another after > all ;-) I don't know the status of what NeXT may or may not have licensed. Back then, it was mostly the kernel that was the biggest concern, the userland (and other parts not developed at USL, such as the virtual memory system, TCP stack, file system, etc). wouldn't have concerned AT&T/USL as much. Since it wasn't the BSD kernel of 4.3BSD, I don't know. They probably were licensees just to cover their bases, which was common then. > The other curious thing and somewhat unrelated (or not?) is how close > 386BSD FreeBSD were to Linux (both in '91, FreeBSD actually '92). So if > only for a few months, Linux would probably not exist. But I wonder if the > whole Free Software-later-Open Source movement would have played out in > much the same way. Ironically, FreeBSD is more free than "Free Software" > per the FSF-GPL. Yes, Linux was famously quoted as that he wouldn't have started on Linux if BSD wasn't encumbered. He wasn't happy with Minix, and started off on his own.. The USL lawsuit most likely was the impetus to have Linux move forward quickly while the status of any BSD derived OS was in question until the USL lawsuite was resolved. I wouldn't compare the earliest dates they were made, it wasn't until 1993 or so that usable distributions of Linux became really popular (ie. SLS & Slackware), which was the middle of the USL lawsuit, which wasn't resolved until Feb 1994. BSDi probably would have moved forward quicker if not hampered by the USL lawsuit. Yes, things would have been quite different if the timing was any different.