Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2023 05:31:19 +0900 From: NSD <nsd@nantahala.systems> To: "Jan Beich" <jbeich@FreeBSD.org> Cc: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Reorganizing FreeBSD Ports Directory Structure for Non-X Window Managers and Wayland Support Message-ID: <71c92d25-a02b-40b4-9ef6-0d78c7f4fe73@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <sf9a-juee-wny@FreeBSD.org> References: <6f2e2ce5-e1e8-437f-9e20-5fec3f6a305b@app.fastmail.com> <sf9a-juee-wny@FreeBSD.org>
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--abdfed0966024fbdbe5edb33fa979d4a Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you for sharing your feedback and concerns regarding the proposed = changes to the FreeBSD Port directories. I appreciate your input, and it= 's crucial to consider all perspectives before making any modifications. I understand that the Porter's Handbook recommends against adding new ph= ysical categories, and this is a valid point. We must carefully consider= the challenges associated with introducing new categories, ensuring con= sistency, and avoiding confusion. You mentioned that certain Wayland compositors also function as X11 wind= ow managers, like plasma5-kwin, kwinft, mutter, and enlightenment. This = highlights the complexity of categorization. Indeed, accommodating both = X11 and Wayland managers within separate directories might not be straig= htforward and could lead to complications. I recognize the importance of keeping the directory structure intuitive = and user-friendly to adhere to the Principle of Least Astonishment (POLA= ). Nested physical categories could potentially cause confusion and disr= upt existing workflows, which is something we should avoid. You suggested an alternative approach, advocating for tagging through vi= rtual categories, which offers more flexibility and discoverability. I f= ind the examples from Gentoo with "gui-wm" and PkgSrc with "wm" categori= es interesting, as they encompass both X11 window managers and Wayland c= ompositors. I completely understand your point about the challenge of finding the co= rrect category for ports, even for non-Wayland ones. The primary goal of= any directory reorganization should be to simplify the process and make= it more intuitive for users. Given your reservations and the complexities involved, I encourage furth= er discussions to find a solution that meets the needs of the community = while minimizing potential disruptions. Thank you once again for sharing your thoughts on this matter. Kind Regards, NSD On Thu, Jul 27, 2023, at 5:21 AM, Jan Beich wrote: > NSD <nsd@nantahala.systems> writes: >=20 > > Dear All, > > > > FreeBSD could benefit from reorganizing its directory structure to > > accommodate non-X Window managers more effectively. Currently, these > > managers are all placed under the "x11" directories, which may not > > accurately represent their nature. >=20 > - Porter's Handbook recommends against[1] adding new physical categori= es > - Some Wayland compositors are also X11 window managers: plasma5-kwin, > kwinft, mutter and, probably, enlightment >=20 > [1] https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/porters-handbook/makefiles/#prop= osing-categories >=20 > > A more intuitive approach could be to introduce a new "display" dire= ctory that encompasses various display managers. Here's a proposed reorg= anization: > > > > display/ > > =E2=94=9C=E2=94=80 x11/ > > =E2=94=82 =E2=94=94=E2=94=80... > > =E2=94=82 > > =E2=94=9C=E2=94=80 wayland/ > > =E2=94=82 =E2=94=9C=E2=94=80 wayland-wm/ > > =E2=94=82 =E2=94=94=E2=94=80 ... > > =E2=94=82 > > =E2=94=94=E2=94=80 arcan/ > > =E2=94=94=E2=94=80 arcan-wm/ > > =E2=94=94=E2=94=80 durden/ >=20 > - Nested physical categories are a POLA violation (going to confuse an= d break lots of stuff) > - Tagging is more flexible and discoverable and is already done via vi= rtual categories > - Gentoo uses "gui-wm" while PkgSrc uses "wm" for both X11 window mana= gers > and Wayland compositors; for example, x11* can be renamed to gui* >=20 > Anyway, I'm not interested. I already struggle to find the correct > category even for non-Wayland ports. >=20 --abdfed0966024fbdbe5edb33fa979d4a Content-Type: text/html;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type=3D"text/css">p.Mso= Normal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><p>Thank you for sha= ring your feedback and concerns regarding the proposed changes to the Fr= eeBSD Port directories. I appreciate your input, and it's crucial to con= sider all perspectives before making any modifications.<br></p><p>I unde= rstand that the Porter's Handbook recommends against adding new physical= categories, and this is a valid point. We must carefully consider the c= hallenges associated with introducing new categories, ensuring consisten= cy, and avoiding confusion.<br></p><p>You mentioned that certain Wayland= compositors also function as X11 window managers, like plasma5-kwin, kw= inft, mutter, and enlightenment. This highlights the complexity of categ= orization. Indeed, accommodating both X11 and Wayland managers within se= parate directories might not be straightforward and could lead to compli= cations.<br></p><p>I recognize the importance of keeping the directory s= tructure intuitive and user-friendly to adhere to the Principle of Least= Astonishment (POLA). Nested physical categories could potentially cause= confusion and disrupt existing workflows, which is something we should = avoid.<br></p><p>You suggested an alternative approach, advocating for t= agging through virtual categories, which offers more flexibility and dis= coverability. I find the examples from Gentoo with "gui-wm" and PkgSrc w= ith "wm" categories interesting, as they encompass both X11 window manag= ers and Wayland compositors.<br></p><p>I completely understand your poin= t about the challenge of finding the correct category for ports, even fo= r non-Wayland ones. The primary goal of any directory reorganization sho= uld be to simplify the process and make it more intuitive for users.<br>= </p><p>Given your reservations and the complexities involved, I encourag= e further discussions to find a solution that meets the needs of the com= munity while minimizing potential disruptions.<br></p><p>Thank you once = again for sharing your thoughts on this matter.<br><br>Kind Regards,<br>= NSD<br></p><div><br></div><div>On Thu, Jul 27, 2023, at 5:21 AM, Jan Bei= ch wrote:<br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" id=3D"qt" style=3D""><div>N= SD <<a href=3D"mailto:nsd@nantahala.systems">nsd@nantahala.systems</a= >> writes:<br></div><div><br></div><div>> Dear All,<br></div><div>= ><br></div><div>> FreeBSD could benefit from reorganizing its dire= ctory structure to<br></div><div>> accommodate non-X Window managers = more effectively. Currently, these<br></div><div>> managers are all p= laced under the "x11" directories, which may not<br></div><div>> accu= rately represent their nature.<br></div><div><br></div><div>- Porter's H= andbook recommends against[1] adding new physical categories<br></div><d= iv>- Some Wayland compositors are also X11 window managers: plasma5-kwin= ,<br></div><div> kwinft, mutter and, probably, enlightment<br></di= v><div><br></div><div>[1] <a href=3D"https://docs.freebsd.org/en/bo= oks/porters-handbook/makefiles/#proposing-categories">https://docs.freeb= sd.org/en/books/porters-handbook/makefiles/#proposing-categories</a><br>= </div><div><br></div><div>> A more intuitive approach could be to int= roduce a new "display" directory that encompasses various display manage= rs. Here's a proposed reorganization:<br></div><div>><br></div><div>&= gt; display/<br></div><div>> =E2=94=9C=E2=94=80 x11/<br><= /div><div>> =E2=94=82 =E2=94=94=E2=94=80...<b= r></div><div>> =E2=94=82<br></div><div>> =E2= =94=9C=E2=94=80 wayland/<br></div><div>> =E2=94=82 &= nbsp; =E2=94=9C=E2=94=80 wayland-wm/<br></div><div>> =E2=94= =82 =E2=94=94=E2=94=80 ...<br></div><div>> =E2= =94=82<br></div><div>> =E2=94=94=E2=94=80 arcan/<br></div= ><div>> =E2=94=94=E2=94=80 arcan-= wm/<br></div><div>> &n= bsp; =E2=94=94=E2=94=80 durden/<br></div><div><br></div><div>- Nes= ted physical categories are a POLA violation (going to confuse and break= lots of stuff)<br></div><div>- Tagging is more flexible and discoverabl= e and is already done via virtual categories<br></div><div>- Gentoo uses= "gui-wm" while PkgSrc uses "wm" for both X11 window managers<br></div><= div> and Wayland compositors; for example, x11* can be renamed to = gui*<br></div><div><br></div><div>Anyway, I'm not interested. I already = struggle to find the correct<br></div><div>category even for non-Wayland= ports.<br></div><div><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div></body></htm= l> --abdfed0966024fbdbe5edb33fa979d4a--
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