From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 29 20:21:22 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71948106564A for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2011 20:21:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Devin.Teske@fisglobal.com) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38A668FC1C for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2011 20:21:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from SBHFISLREXT03 ([10.132.254.62]) by SCSFISLTC02 (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p3TKLLCQ001796; Fri, 29 Apr 2011 15:21:21 -0500 Received: from SBHFISLTCGW04.FNFIS.COM (Not Verified[10.132.248.123]) by SBHFISLREXT03 with MailMarshal (v6, 5, 4, 7535) id ; Fri, 29 Apr 2011 15:21:58 -0500 Received: from sbhfisltcgw02.FNFIS.COM ([10.132.248.122]) by SBHFISLTCGW04.FNFIS.COM with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 29 Apr 2011 15:21:21 -0500 Received: from dtwin ([10.132.254.135]) by sbhfisltcgw02.FNFIS.COM over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 29 Apr 2011 15:21:20 -0500 From: "Devin Teske" To: "'Mike Meyer'" , "'Paul Schenkeveld'" References: <9AD2C0D5-F2A7-4F20-B04A-AF9BFC5918F7@vicor.com> <20110429130820.5056390e@bhuda.mired.org> <000301cc069f$edf8bd10$c9ea3730$@vicor.com> <20110429152423.11736f82@bhuda.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <20110429152423.11736f82@bhuda.mired.org> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 13:21:17 -0700 Organization: Vicor, Inc. Message-ID: <003b01cc06ab$0002a790$0007f6b0$@vicor.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQF9G/AhblsjpgWTQkLl7e1bA9mQcAGd6paiAm37VRoBMTEP4ZTpKvSg Content-Language: en-us X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Apr 2011 20:21:20.0488 (UTC) FILETIME=[00865680:01CC06AB] Cc: 'FreeBSD Hackers' Subject: RE: [RELEASE] New Boot-Loader Menu X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 20:21:22 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Meyer [mailto:mwm@mired.org] > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 12:24 PM > To: Devin Teske > Cc: 'FreeBSD Hackers' > Subject: Re: [RELEASE] New Boot-Loader Menu > > On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:02:03 -0700 > "Devin Teske" wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Mike Meyer [mailto:mwm@mired.org] I'd like to revisit the > > > numbers vs. letters for menu options. IIRC (and I may > > not), > > > an earlier version used letters for the menu options, and people > > > objected to > > that > > > change. > > > > Looking at the CVS history of the Forth code that renders the menu, > > I'm > > noticing: > > > > If there was an earlier version of the menu that used letters, I'm not > > seeing it in CVS. > > I was referring to your code, not the historical FreeBSD code. Didn't you originally > propose using letters, not numbers, to toggle the boot options? If not, then > possibly I'm remembering another proposal. You're recalling a response to the thread that I started on March 28th, 2011 (last month): THREAD-HEAD: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2011-March/034824.html The "letters not numbers" post that you're recalling was by Paul S. (below): http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2011-March/034830.html Although Paul makes a point that the letters would be helpful, his complaint about the numbers being changed is a red-herring (he saw the unreleased mock-up image of my boot-loader -- in the thread-head URL above -- presenting different numbers and complained that if the numbers change that sysadmins would be confused). However, the reality is that [a] the final release indeed matches the numbers with the existing boot loader and [b] the numbers have not changed in 7 years). Paul, ... supporting evidence to show that the numbers (1-7) have never changed since their initial commit to CVS on May 30th, 2003 (see the "beastie-menu" forth word in version 1.1 of beastie.4th circa RELENG_5_0): http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/sys/boot/forth/beastie.4th The case is merely that Paul would like to see this additional feature added (letters as mnemonics). I couldn't find any claims that any previous version (either of my code or official FreeBSD code) ever supported it in the past. So, I think that the grand-total comes to 5 people now that have requested hot-keys for the single-user and verbose menu items: Paul S. (msg #034830) Zhihao Y. (msg #034831) Damien F. (msg #034841) Yourself (Mike M.) (msg #035192 & msg #035197) and Myself (Devin T. msg #035195) Let's see if we can't get that list a little higher. Keep in-mind, the proposal (at least for right now) is to have me extend my code to bold the "S" in "Single User", bold the "V" in "Verbose", and accept the S/V key as toggles for these features, all the while maintaining the current number scheme. NOTE: I'm going to wait a couple weeks before starting on this, as I've currently got a couple of other companies evaluating the boot loader in its current form and would like their feedback before moving forward on the next revision. > > > > In particular, there was a study done around '80 (I tried to find it > > > but > > couldn't; I > > > know of someone who can probably provide a reference if someone > > > really wants > > > it) that showed that menu selection with letters assigned > > > mnemonically are easiest for users to memorize. > > > > I can believe that quite easily. However, currently the boot menu does > > not support such letters. I think this new loader menu is the perfect > > place to implement them. > > This seemed like a good time to change it if we were going to to me. I couldn't agree more. -- Devin > > > On another note, I have one other change that I'd like to get in... I > > noticed that (in CVS) the menu currently blanks-out option #2 if > > booting on a system where ACPI is disabled or unavailable. In my boot > > loader, I'd like to display "ACPI Support: N/A" rather than simply blanking out > the menu item. > > That would certainly make the numbers make more sense. > > Thanks, > -- > Mike Meyer > http://www.mired.org/consulting.html > Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information. > > O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately. In addition, please be aware that any message addressed to our domain is subject to archiving and review by persons other than the intended recipient. Thank you. _____________