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[76.81.105.82]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j17sm25174928pfa.28.2019.12.30.11.49.56 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 30 Dec 2019 11:49:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 09:49:55 -1000 (HST) From: Jeff Roberson X-X-Sender: jroberson@desktop To: "Kevin P. Neal" cc: rgrimes@freebsd.org, svn-src-head@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, Pedro Giffuni , src-committers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: svn commit: r356142 - in head/sys: dev/ofw sys In-Reply-To: <20191230020202.GB74518@neutralgood.org> Message-ID: References: <201912280527.xBS5R8fk041737@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> <20191230020202.GB74518@neutralgood.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.21.9999 (BSF 287 2018-06-16) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47mp1M4YdSz4PrQ X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=jroberson-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=lBzTQxKz; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jroberson@jroberson.net has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::443) smtp.mailfrom=jroberson@jroberson.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.75 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[jroberson-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[svn-src-all@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[jroberson.net]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[jroberson-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.4.4.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-0.95)[ip: (-0.70), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.15), asn: 15169(-1.87), country: US(-0.05)] X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 19:50:00 -0000 On Sun, 29 Dec 2019, Kevin P. Neal wrote: > On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 10:11:48AM -1000, Jeff Roberson wrote: >> It seems to be the prevailing theory that headers are not even really >> copyrightable. This has even been tested in court a few times (bsd, java). >> >> http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0301.1/0362.html >> >> The original definitions from this file were part of posix.1b and so it's >> hard to argue they are anything but public. Coincidentally I know Greg and > > Wow is Google v Oracle going to screw this up. I fully expect the US Supreme > Court to make a total hash of that case and cause havoc for the whole > software industry. > > The right thing for FreeBSD to do is decrease the size of the attack surface > by getting the licenses as straight as possible. IMHO. But IANAL. > >> In my opinion, this has already wasted everyone's time with an irrelevant >> nit-picking argument. The onus is not on Pedro to chase this down just so > > Lawyers make a living nit-picking. That's why one has to be very careful > to do a preemptive nit-pick before they get involved. I personally participated when a fortune < 100 company sent a team of lawyers to audit the licensing terms of FreeBSD to ensure compliance in a multi-billion dollar a year product. None of them batted an eye at this. It is my understanding that this has taken place multiple times and once even resulted in phk receiving an official beer from a similarly sized company per the terms of his beerware license. Do we actually believe that someone somewhere is going to sue the project or it's users on behalf of myself or greg because the user is in compliance with one bsd license and not the other? I trust the lawyer's opinions over yours. The problem here isn't the license. It's that everyone who allegedly thinks this is of such dire importance that they must continue spaming the list and arguing about it hasn't thought it important enough to send a single email to Greg Ansley so they personally can commit a simplification. It literally would've taken less time to simply copy Greg, ask approval, and commit a change and no one would've argued. I would argue that we don't even need greg's approval to copy 8 standards defined function prototypes. Richard Stallman seems to argue the same and I guarantee he's spent more time with copyright lawyers than any of us. I assert that the point here is not the license at all or it would've been resolved already. I see a lot of low effort sniping on the list off and on since my return to opensource. In most cases it is not even from particularly active contributors. It is very discourging to donate time and energy to the project only to be rewarded with criticism delivered with an air of superiority. It drives people away at a time when operating systems are all facing declining and aging developer populations. Jeff > -- > Kevin P. Neal http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ > On the community of supercomputer fans: > "But what we lack in size we make up for in eccentricity." > from Steve Gombosi, comp.sys.super, 31 Jul 2000 11:22:43 -0600 >