From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 6 11:33:17 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3E7416A4CE; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:33:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from vhost109.his.com (vhost109.his.com [216.194.225.101]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00FDB43D3F; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:33:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Received: from [10.0.1.4] (localhost.his.com [127.0.0.1]) by vhost109.his.com (8.12.6p3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i06JWhxg072526; Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:33:14 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brad.knowles@skynet.be) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: bs663385@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3FFAF1D4.4000709@iconoplex.co.uk> References: <79B4EAB03B5E4649A740A8C1452F606435AF1B@y6001a.umb.corp.umb.com> <3FFAF1D4.4000709@iconoplex.co.uk> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:13:21 +0100 To: Paul Robinson From: Brad Knowles Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 05:16:27 -0800 cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Where is FreeBSD going? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 19:33:17 -0000 At 5:35 PM +0000 2004/01/06, Paul Robinson wrote: > The cleverness of the "troll" was: > > 1. It was written by somebody who at the least had read these lists > for at least the last two years Maybe. It would be easy enough to skim the archives. > 2. It aired the real frustrations of those of us without commit bits Define "us". You sure as hell aren't speaking for me. > 3. It was on the whole, apart from the personal attacks, reasonably > correct. Evidence, please. > And therein lies a problem. The only thing any of the committers > cares about is what they think. Got a problem? Submit a patch. > Don't like the way things are done? Submit a patch. Don't like > how such-and-such a util works? Submit a patch. Not at all true. Mark Murray (among others) has stressed the need for people with different talents to contribute to the project. We need more people who can help us do proper QA. We need more people who can help us write good documentation. We need people who have a lot of skills that are not necessarily related at all to writing code. If you have a set of skills that you think could be useful, please contact Mark or one of the other members of -core to find out how you might be able to contribute to the project. Otherwise, if you're not willing to try to put your money where your mouth is, then please shut up. > Except, when Matt Dillon did submit, he was told to back out > his changes and then lost his commit bit. This was because > there was an "imminent commit" due from somebody working on > SMP, which still isn't finished really. I have the greatest respect for Matt, but he has been a serious problem for the project for a long time. His technical disagreements with other members of the project are just one relatively minor aspect of those problems. His personality has been a much bigger issue. > In short, you can put all the effort you want in, but -core and > many with a commit bit will resent you for it, because you're > just a user. Who cares about users? This is their project after > all. If you want to feel like this is your project, then you need to find a way to take ownership of some part. See above. > Personally, unless the madness around SMP, the 5- branch and various > other bits are ironed out, I can see my next server deployment making > use of DragonFly. Please let us know how it turns out. -- Brad Knowles, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania. GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+ !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++) tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++)