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Grimes'" , =?utf-8?Q?'Goran_Meki=C4=87'?= , , "'Emmanuel Vadot'" References: <201904291931.x3TJV73d079802@slippy.cwsent.com> <6EB65F49-47CD-48B2-8C58-BF387D8C7A58@ixsystems.com> In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: CFT: FreeBSD Package Base Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 10:17:42 -0400 Message-ID: <040b01d4ff5f$79db2cd0$6d918670$@ixsystems.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQJwntuDUvMXv+H62eTQaW+A+ndXwwITa+GXAVm475ClAhTYAA== Content-Language: en-us X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 06F5573473 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=ixsystems-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=tfcDwyXG; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=ixsystems.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kris@ixsystems.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::c2e as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kris@ixsystems.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.91 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[ixsystems-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(-2.92)[ip: (-9.15), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.17), asn: 15169(-2.24), country: US(-0.06)]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[ixsystems-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT3.ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[e.2.c.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[ixsystems.com,none]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.978,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Packaging the FreeBSD base system." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 14:17:46 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: David Chisnall > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 4:23 AM > To: Joe Maloney ; Cy Schubert > > Cc: Rodney W. Grimes ; Kris Moore > ; FreeBSD Stable ; > freebsd-ports@freebsd.org; Goran Meki=C4=87 ; = freebsd- > hackers@freebsd.org; FreeBSD Current ; > freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org; freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org; Emmanuel Vadot > > Subject: Re: CFT: FreeBSD Package Base >=20 > On 29/04/2019 21:12, Joe Maloney wrote: > > With CFT version you chose to build, and package individual = components > such as sendmail with a port option. That does entirely solve the = problem of > being able to reinstall sendmail after the fact without a rebuild of = the > userland (base) port but perhaps base flavors could solve that problem > assuming flavors could extend beyond python. >=20 > This sounds very much like local optimisation. It's now easy to create = a > custom base image. Great. But how do I express dependencies in ports = on a > specific base configuration? This is easy if I depend on a specific = base > package, but how does this work in your model? For example, if I have = a > package that depends on a library that is an optional part of the base = system, > how do I express that pkg needs to either refuse to install it, or = install a > userland pkg that includes that library in place of my existing = version as part > of the install process? >=20 > More importantly for the container use case, if I want to take a = completely > empty jail and do pkg ins nginx (for example), what does the = maintainer of > the nginx port need to do to express the minimum set of the base = system > that needs to be installed to allow nginx to work? >=20 > One of the goals for the pkg base concept was to allow this kind of = use case, > easily creating a minimal environment required to run a single = service. With a > monolithic base package set, you're going to need some mechanism other > than packages to express the specific base subset package that you = need and > I think that you need to justify why this mechanism is better than = using small > individual packages. >=20 > David Yes, this is the next logical step of this package base effort. We'd = like to build out the port framework to do proper flavors of some of the = most common base configurations. We did this last week to allow having = both Debug/NonDebug kernels available via pkg, next step would be to = extend that to the base system itself, so you could have a variety of = configs represented as flavors, including minimal. The way we'll be able to interject depends on ports is going to be = through our usage of "userland" as a meta-package. That meta-package = depends on userland-base (The traditional FreeBSD world contents). = However it currently has options to depend on sysutils/zol, pairing that = with a userland-base that is compiled without ZFS. Fleshing that out = should be fairly straight forward, but we wanted to get some hands-on = testing and feedback on the current work before going down that route.=20 Ideally we extend some of the flavors support that already exists in = Ports for Python 2/3 with base as well and it avoids us having to = brute-force it with tons of dummy ports with different flag = combinations. This would give you the ability to 'pkg install = userland-minimal' or whatever name, and more importantly your ports = could have depends on those particular flavors as well. I.E. some port = needs SSL in base, or firewall, etc, etc.=20 --=20 Kris Moore Vice President of Engineering iXsystems, Inc Ph: (408) 943-4100 Ph: (408) 943-4101 The Groundbreaking TrueNAS M-Series - Enterprise Storage & Servers Driven By Open Source