From owner-svn-src-all@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jun 13 19:16:47 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DCA00C96; Sat, 13 Jun 2015 19:16:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cell.glebius.int.ru (glebius.int.ru [81.19.69.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "cell.glebius.int.ru", Issuer "cell.glebius.int.ru" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2B22CE41; Sat, 13 Jun 2015 19:16:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cell.glebius.int.ru (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cell.glebius.int.ru (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id t5DJGdNO005201 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 13 Jun 2015 22:16:39 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from glebius@localhost) by cell.glebius.int.ru (8.14.9/8.14.9/Submit) id t5DJGdCr005200; Sat, 13 Jun 2015 22:16:39 +0300 (MSK) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: cell.glebius.int.ru: glebius set sender to glebius@FreeBSD.org using -f Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 22:16:39 +0300 From: Gleb Smirnoff To: David Chisnall Cc: Ian Lepore , Steve Kargl , Alexander Kabaev , Marcel Moolenaar , src-committers@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, svn-src-head@freebsd.org Subject: Re: svn commit: r284198 - head/bin/ls Message-ID: <20150613191639.GO73119@FreeBSD.org> References: <201506100127.t5A1RdX6051959@svn.freebsd.org> <20150612204309.11dd3391@kan> <20150613024916.GA98218@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1434208622.1415.57.camel@freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 19:16:48 -0000 On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 11:38:11AM -0400, David Chisnall wrote: D> > If you would have told me a year ago that you had a simple scheme that D> > could make 30 years of experience maintaining code for unix-like systems D> > completely worthless I would have been skeptical, but it seems we're D> > well on our way. D> D> There is a lot of heckling and unhelpful hyperbole in this thread. Reading the xo_emit format strings takes a little bit of getting used to, but the same is true of printf - it’s just that we’re already used to printf. The structured parts (xo_open_container, xo_close_container and friends) are clear and descriptive. The changes are fairly invasive, but the benefits are also very large for anyone who is wanting to automate administration of FreeBSD systems. D> D> If you have suggestions for how the libxo APIs could be improved, then please let us know - Phil is very reception to suggestions but objections along the lines of ‘it’s not what I’m used to and changes sometimes break things so we should never have changes’ are not helpful. I would agree with David. After xo_emit format is learned, reading sources of converted programs isn't a big deal. All the problems with converted utilities are due to very bad quality of initial conversion commits. -- Totus tuus, Glebius.