From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jan 12 07:04:12 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F08216A4CE; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:04:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.163]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77C1843D2D; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:04:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0CF412n005612; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:04:08 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@phk.freebsd.dk) To: John Hay From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:25:28 +0200." <20040112142528.GA15906@zibbi.icomtek.csir.co.za> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 16:04:01 +0100 Message-ID: <5611.1073919841@critter.freebsd.dk> cc: Greg 'groggy' Lehey cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Future of RAIDFrame and Vinum (was: Future of RAIDFrame) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:04:12 -0000 In message <20040112142528.GA15906@zibbi.icomtek.csir.co.za>, John Hay writes: >> >But, in the real world of software engineering, He Who Breaketh It, >> >Must Fixeth It. >... >> In a free software project, you can take any rule like that an put >> it anywhere you like, in any font, size and color of your choice >> and it still wont work. > >I don't think it is totally true. If a free software project have >enough power to give and revoke commit bits and to make rules... N% of the work in FreeBSD is done by 100-N% of the committers, for some value of N. This fraction of people and new people inducted into that elite statistic are obviously rather crucial to the future of FreeBSD. If you insist on putting a rule down which make it impossible to work on any sort of infrastructure in the FreeBSD kernel without inheriting every single lump of code anybody ever managed to check into our CVS, then I think most people in this caliber can find better things to use their spare time on. Isolated features with a small user-communities, things like vinum, raidframe, appletalk, bluetooth, MAC and similar, needs to come with developer resources for its own maintenance, and vinum currently comes up short in this respect. _THAT_ is the problem we need solved, we don't need more arm-chair inspired pseudo-management rules for monkey-throwing. As you can hear, I am getting pretty sick and tired of the "Vinum is important to me and/or the project so _you_ have to fix it" refrain. I can tell you with 100% certainty, that no matter what I do, I will not be fixing vinum in my own spare time. If somebody wants to pay me to do it, then it is a different thing, I'll do anything for money (well... almost anything): contact me, my rates are very reasonable. And I will say it one last time: If you want vinum to have a future, you should rally behind whatever Greg organizes for the purpose of getting vinum into shape and contribute to that. That is the only way it will happen. In the mean time, FreeBSD needs to move forward with the SMPng work, even if that means breaking vinum further until Gregs team catches up. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.