From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Dec 11 16:27:46 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 642AB1336F87 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 16:27:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aimass@yabarana.com) Received: from mail-vs1-xe44.google.com (mail-vs1-xe44.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e44]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B41F7F118 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 16:27:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aimass@yabarana.com) Received: by mail-vs1-xe44.google.com with SMTP id v205so9242169vsc.3 for ; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 08:27:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yabarana-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=66GHoddFVM7owCBDYh0SanFgA3LPp1NxTzE+oa5RiYQ=; b=CzxSYezk0ZaK45MvGcbvLDLdoSzAAV96iGskYGkkR5Q2xeymV0N3ZXFU/KpVkWjNK7 HIF6v6PG9PTTAT9yQpMj72Imauz805zHs2dTJ1x+ks8RyXxlFARc5VluHu4pRNAMXZuR B4tscHP1Xo1GP4nfMm+tR2G2gNCJm5yA1wG6RDqzM8UKuLV77KdLJfL6zbzyWUZa8Fgb QtTIae8bFh9dtUls0HQUt9segk5omuIF+8vBFQDMGYFROQ+2HmUYrNBvQ9EvSq92g5jJ E0BElHwfvO2WegqnWxEPePp5yfUBalcIEASMDOsHsRr2yQSLxqZjerYr2m3iSRMwiSwW nMZg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=66GHoddFVM7owCBDYh0SanFgA3LPp1NxTzE+oa5RiYQ=; b=OJLZVnW5KFe+H1vUYNtgFYNXN7w2eRErvBxTm98T4+EWhGLj1HLaI9j5Gu6EOCseP4 Q4ZDtOcs1cJ+cgLIlKd/BO5Eh+re9KDZZhVK3XT11DeVazPUlbDm0OHOXyHOdkNY9OTk ax2lTkUM0X4HfXVAfyfoHy5UeYLUZC9bE2ufMslmgoo/dY0r+l9wvBtEBM8i2+XtLs0V ivpmJIN21UDnW9bSVQ+g3/0otn0+q5sGh/BX+lpVJ3/ZiFMCByD/tKQkfvPGM6A+f9wQ EGn9ILYGECEmMmgmShseUiDDsE4IlTtqdcSrLB4+C4zHVYc9GIifc1+uWxyrchOEZ3eS QZrw== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWbR7DwhaNZ+pee6QTgXZVlgBZn05ttYMI4j6oZmKQrd3giES7RF QiEGErXtAUwMLhLHBkYxzMq9YVUFA57xdQoNSeUQbxRC X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/WyLm54ZzhBNG0cHPVn0EBRCgWY50l05zPU5aTJ/f/z4McI2z1l0ywcp5xqUglzpoOiBfW8t+wojVLwxvbvTrE= X-Received: by 2002:a67:cf02:: with SMTP id y2mr7633525vsl.118.1544545664684; Tue, 11 Dec 2018 08:27:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181211041849.GA75666@geeks.org> <20181211083449.2b0582960aad72bbed914ed0@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20181211083449.2b0582960aad72bbed914ed0@sohara.org> From: Alejandro Imass Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 11:27:33 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: freebsd or linux To: steve@sohara.org Cc: FreeBSD Questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7B41F7F118 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yabarana-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=CzxSYezk; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aimass@yabarana.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::e44 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aimass@yabarana.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.15 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yabarana-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.19)[0.191,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[yabarana.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt1.aspmx.l.google.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yabarana-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.4.e.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(0.17)[ip: (3.74), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-1.52), asn: 15169(-1.27), country: US(-0.09)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2018 16:27:46 -0000 On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 3:36 AM Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > On Tue, 11 Dec 2018 00:51:31 -0500 > Alejandro Imass wrote: > > > But I wonder if the > > whole Free Software-later-Open Source movement would have played out in > > much the same way. Ironically, FreeBSD is more free than "Free Software" > > per the FSF-GPL. > > The GPL is older than Linux and the GNU software collection even > older (GNU Emacs dates to 1985, gcc to 1987, bash around the same time). I > had a GNU tape aroud 1988 which had GNU versions of most of the classic > unix tools including gcc and bash. By 1991 GNU was already a unix system in > search of a kernel. > > Yes, GNU is much older but was stalled and would not have gone anywhere without Linux, IMO anyway. Actually, Linux not only put GNU and GPL on the map, but it fundamentally changed the mindset of the Cathedral development into the Bazaar (borrowing the terms coined by ESR's musings), and also changed the corporate mindset into opening up, and brought to surface some fundamental issues in intellectual property (e.g. software patents), amongst many other things. FreeBSD still bears some of the Cathedral model but I wonder if Linus was actually truthful about 386BSD, and the story would have played out with FBSD, then would "Open Source" (per OSF definition) have evolved in much the same way? Maybe not, maybe the corporates would have stepped in way earlier because of the BSD license. Maybe Mozilla would have never happened, who knows. Anyway, my point is that the timing was so close that it's really curious. Call it collective subconsciousness, noospheric sewer, quantum entanglement (much like when Calculus was 'invented' simultaneously), or maybe it was just east vs. west coast bullshit (MIT vs. Berkley), or Linus' ego, plain and simple. LOL. In any case Jobs (or someone close to him) chose BSD, and IMHO they made a great choice. Best, Alex