From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 23 13:21:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B79F216A4CE for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:21:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.speakeasy.net (mail1.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.201]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75E1343D68 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:20:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 7829 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2004 21:20:55 -0000 Received: from dsl027-160-063.atl1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender ) encrypted SMTP for ; 23 Jan 2004 21:20:55 -0000 Received: from 10.50.40.205 (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i0NLKlM2031263; Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:20:51 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) From: John Baldwin To: Peter Jeremy , Dag-Erling =?iso-8859-1?q?Sm=F8rgrav?= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:13:26 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <20040118235148M.matusita@jp.FreeBSD.org> <20040123205005.GB4759@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> In-Reply-To: <20040123205005.GB4759@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200401231613.26241.jhb@FreeBSD.org> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: stable@freebsd.org cc: re@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Fix make release for 4-STABLE X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 21:21:28 -0000 On Friday 23 January 2004 03:50 pm, Peter Jeremy wrote: > On Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 08:41:50AM +0100, Dag-Erling Sm=F8rgrav wrote: > >John Baldwin writes: > >> [...] I have th= is > >> bad feeling that there is some kind of memory corruption bug in the > >> loader and that the problem goes away if you use a loader that has for= th > >> in it. > > I presume this was the trying-to-DMA-across-a-64k-boundary problem > that was fixed recently. Yes. > >why use a loader w/o forth? a complete loader with all 4th and conf > >files takes about 250k, which will definitely fit on the boot floppy, > >and with splitfs we don't need to worry about there being enough room > >for the kernel. > > "goes away" doesn't mean that the problem isn't there. It just means > that there's no obvious problem in John's particular splitfs test case. > A proper fix is far preferable to masking the problem and finding the > bug is far easier when it clearly manifests itself. > > FORTH in the install loader is an interesting question. Do the > benefits of FORTH in the initial install justify its size? (I don't > know the answer to this). I agree that we can do it (with the aid of > splitfs) but we don't want to unnecessarily bloat the install image. > > Firstly, writing and reading floppies is painfully slow, though not > slow enough that you can usefully do something else whilst waiting. > > Secondly, install image bloat translates to a higher minimum RAM > requirement and the floppy install is likely to be mostly used in > older systems which are likely to have less RAM. The last figure I > can remember is 16MB RAM (it doesn't seem to be documented in the > -RELEASE Hardware notes). The current 16MB limit means that it is > non-trivial to install FreeBSD on any normal 386-based system and > increasing it further will start biting 486-based systems. I agree > that these systems are obsolete but they are still useful as SOHO- > grade routers, simple firewalls, printservers etc. The size of the loader doesn't affect how much memory sysinstall needs for = the=20 install, so adding forth support back in won't affect the minimum memory=20 requirement. =2D-=20 John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve" =3D http://www.FreeBSD.org