From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 29 19:11:10 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C33261065670 for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:11:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from prvs=0623c498d=pschmehl_lists@tx.rr.com) Received: from ip-001.utdallas.edu (ip-001.utdallas.edu [129.110.20.107]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 931EC8FC1B for ; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:11:10 +0000 (UTC) X-Group: None X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvcKAG0ukk2BbgogVmdsb2JhbAClWQEhAiSJHrt7hWoEhTyORQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.63,264,1299477600"; d="scan'208";a="57045576" Received: from zxtm01.utdallas.edu (HELO [129.110.200.11]) ([129.110.10.32]) by ip-001.utdallas.edu with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 29 Mar 2011 14:11:08 -0500 Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:11:07 -0500 From: Paul Schmehl To: Michal Varga , Paul Schmehl Message-ID: <87B0CCF2B38381F29EE67BA4@utd71538.local> In-Reply-To: <1301419646.71335.123.camel@xenon> References: <20110329013223.ddca7453.jhsu802701@jasonhsu.com> <1301419646.71335.123.camel@xenon> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: Jason Hsu , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Best way to switch from Linux to BSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Paul Schmehl List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:11:10 -0000 --On March 29, 2011 7:27:26 PM +0200 Michal Varga wrote: > On Tue, 2011-03-29 at 11:43 -0500, Paul Schmehl wrote: > >> FreeBSD is first and foremost a server OS. > > Could you support your claim with some examples, please? > Seriously? Visit Netcraft. > >> Desktop support is lacking when compared to the other major OSes >> (Windows, Mac and Linux). > > Here too. How is "desktop support" on FreeBSD lacking? > > Just getting Xorg working correctly can be a challenge. Installing a DM adds another layer of complexity that some find daunting. Flash, Java, Youtube - all take extra work and in some cases (amd64) don't work very well at all. Check the questions archives for innumerable examples. For a new user, printing can be difficult to get working correctly. So can figuring out how to use a CD. The graphics are not up to par with Windows, much less Mac OS. I have used and continue to use numerous OSes; Windows (every OS since Workgroups 3.0), Mac (every OS since 6.x), Ubuntu, RedHat, Slackware, Gentoo, CentOS, OpenBSD, AIX, Solaris and FreeBSD (just to name a few), and I can assure you that FreeBSD's desktop system is not on the same par with the others with the exception of OpenBSD, AIX and Solaris. I ran FreeBSD as a desktop system on my primary computer for about three years and through several in-place upgrades (from 6.2 to 8.0) without ever formatting and reinstalling. I've used Gnome, KDE and xfce and played around with wm during a minimalist phase. >> You can make it >> work, if you want to, but that's not what its primary function is. > > Where can I find some detailed information about what is FreeBSD's > "primary funtion" and what does that even mean in the first place? > Don't you think you're being a little silly here? I've used FreeBSD as a server OS for over ten years and it is hands down the best OS for that function that I have ever used. But as a desktop, it is less than stellar. I am *not* being critical of the folks who make FreeBSD what it is, but it's obvious to anyone who uses it that the desktop functionality is not the primary focus. I *love* FreeBSD. I'm a port maintainer, so that should show you the level of commitment that I have to the OS. But a desktop OS, it ain't. It can be made one by a skilled user, but even I got tired of having to constantly tweak it. Upgrade Xorg and all of a sudden crap stops working again. (Remember hal? Then hal goes away....) Upgrade KDE and it breaks functionality. Then you troubleshoot, figure out what went wrong and get it working again. I now use a Mac and run FreeBSD in VMWare Fusion. Much less hassle. > >> If you want a user friendly desktop OS, FreeBSD is probably not your >> best choice. > > Why? How is KDE, Gnome, XFCE or some potential other desktop environment > different from the literally exactly same one running on, say, Linux? > If you are really serious, install Ubuntu. Then tell me you can get the same results from the FreeBSD installer without tweaking. Launch a browser and run flash. Try to get Java working on all web pages. Go to Youtube and see if you can watch a video. Ubuntu does it out of the box. FreeBSD only does it after you tweak and tweak and tweak and google and google and google. -- Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst As if it wasn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. ******************************************* "It is as useless to argue with those who have renounced the use of reason as to administer medication to the dead." Thomas Jefferson "There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them." George Orwell