Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 00:45:28 -0700 From: Doug Barton <dougb@FreeBSD.org> To: Mark Linimon <linimon@lonesome.com> Cc: Garrett Cooper <yanegomi@gmail.com>, "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>, Richard Yao <ryao@gentoo.org>, Vincent Hoffman <vince@unsane.co.uk>, Richard Yao <ryao@funtoo.org>, Nathan Whitehorn <nwhitehorn@freebsd.org>, Outback Dingo <outbackdingo@gmail.com>, openrc@gentoo.org, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Peltom=E4ki?= <atte.peltomaki@iki.fi> Subject: Re: Replacing rc(8) (Was: FreeBSD Boot Times) Message-ID: <4FE17F98.6030206@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com> References: <4FDF6177.5050608@unsane.co.uk> <4FDF6586.9060501@gentoo.org> <4FDFB166.2040709@FreeBSD.org> <4FDFB44D.9090308@gentoo.org> <4FE0ADCD.9010109@FreeBSD.org> <4FE0C123.8030301@gentoo.org> <CAGH67wRidMZrzjzTSdwud%2BZ5V--wOTN8CHXOWcOr%2BE5XHYo2rA@mail.gmail.com> <4FE0F773.1080403@gentoo.org> <CAGH67wQdb-c0Kf=60rkaJSH8Hd0OjwCi=rQQMzGq8xfp2q7b=Q@mail.gmail.com> <4FE100F9.2050009@funtoo.org> <20120620073920.GA5300@lonesome.com>
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I was working on a reply along similar lines, but instead I'll say that i agree 100% with what Mark said, and thanks to him for saving me a lot of time. :) Richard, with all that said if you still are interested in specs for a test program, I'm still willing to help with that. Just let me know. Doug On 06/20/2012 12:39 AM, Mark Linimon wrote: > On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 06:45:13PM -0400, Richard Yao wrote: >> That is already done in Gentoo FreeBSD, or do you want me to do the >> work for you to integrate OpenRC in the base system? > > We want you to do the work to prove that it is an improvement. Otherwise > it's "just another claim." > > You seem to be missing a couple of principles here, the most important > of which is "first, do no harm." FreeBSD has as one of its underlying > principles not to violate POLA (Principle Of Least Astonishment.) The > corollary is that we don't replace code unless we're convinced (not just > told) that the replacement is a better solution. > > If this makes FreeBSD more conservative than the way other OSes do > things, so be it. > > I'm not trying to be harsh here. What I'm saying is that the burden > of proof is on the person making the claims "it's better" to demonstrate > that it's so. > > Otherwise, there are a zillion PRs with patches already in the database > for committers to pick up and work on. > >> I already have OpenRC in Gentoo FreeBSD. Taking the time to integrate >> OpenRC into FreeBSD would be an inefficient use of my time. Not only >> would I fail to gain any improvements on my systems, but I would divert >> development time from things that do benefit me. > > Then I expect the situation to remain unchanged. > > fwiw, from previous discussions on FreeBSD boot time, ISTR that there > are other places where more time is spent. Some analysis to prove that > indeed the rc subsystem is the dominant term would be a good starting > place. > > mcl >
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