Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2023 22:20:48 +0300 From: Odhiambo Washington <odhiambo@gmail.com> To: doug@safeport.com Cc: Pete Wright <pete@nomadlogic.org>, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: List managers [Was: Link usability] Message-ID: <CAAdA2WPMhthnb5PvF444Gz5d0ftKS9Mrn13WBngGc=_tPKW=jw@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <34bfdc5d-47e7-f2dc-9560-d5c39f34bbca@safeport.com> References: <ca17a158b68d6cf2d0c261cc5f4268d5ef367482.camel@blues-softwares.net> <3faa3481-abe3-47cd-f273-2658db42a5bc@gmail.com> <11239785ba0531583f29189b133ceafdcded8aad.camel@blues-softwares.net> <ac194575-8e40-5e19-2478-a69fffbab278@freebsd.org> <5f1028aadd42bcbd89c62e843fc59798c52a0f36.camel@blues-softwares.net> <9B5F5E1E-555D-4FA8-AFBE-EBBD3A8A7045@nimnet.asn.au> <6eaa6e1f-af45-41f8-a5d7-2f03eb4f456a@freebsd.org> <A7E64A3C-2D9C-4368-ACC9-A81403C163EC@nimnet.asn.au> <20230321192209.giqsnhqbl7ben6vk@beesty.loosely.org> <7e683c8f-0bb4-74c8-386e-5c4dff5f0804@nomadlogic.org> <34bfdc5d-47e7-f2dc-9560-d5c39f34bbca@safeport.com>
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--0000000000008b650e05f7aa4c4d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 5:10=E2=80=AFPM doug <doug@safeport.com> wrote: > On Tue, 21 Mar 2023, Pete Wright wrote: > > > > > > > On 3/21/23 12:22, possessor.assizer305@aceecat.org wrote: > >> On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 07:49:11PM +1100, Ian Smith wrote: > >> > >>> Ah, right. Yet another consequence of the regressive move from > >>> mailman plus pipermail to mlmmj is loss of clickable links in the > >>> archived messages. Duh! > >> Out of curiosity, what was the rationale for the move? > >> > >> My opinion: > >> Mailman has its warts but it's ubiquitous and well suited for > >> a world where almost everything has to be done in the browser > >> for $REASONS. > >> > > my understanding is that mailman was tied to python2, and the next > version of > > mailman (v3 iirc) that supports python3 is incompatible with the > previous > > version. i think it also had a bunch of other shortcomings/issues. so > i > > suspect the lift to use mlmmj was easier than moving to mailman v3. > > > > i agree its an unfortunate situation, but its i think it would be > > irresponsible to rely on python2 for such critical infrastructure. > > > Boo on the mailman project. There is a conversion utility that takes care > of the syntax changes. The only maajor changes I hit were the MySQL, and = a > couple of DNS modules. In something as complex as mailman I am sure there > was more but relative to just maintaining something that complex well > within there Python knowledge I would assume. I have run Mailman2 since 2005. I am currently running Mailman3. Mailman2 relied on Python2.7. Mailman3 relies on Python3. There is a migration script for Mailman2 to Mailman3. The installation for Mailman3 is better done in a Python Virtual Environment. Being a FressBSD SysAddmin since I encountered FreeBSD in 1997, I can authoritatively say that it is very easy to migrate. And IF anyone needs assistance to migrate their Mailman2 lists to Mailman3, I am willing to hold their hands. Perhaps I should document the whole process. It is quite easy. The only challenge I have faced is the startup script for controlling Mailman3, but I have a rudimentary one that works. I am running Mailman3 on FreeBSD 13- RELEASE, if it matters. I tried Sympa, but waah. Never again. If anyone has questions, I am willing to respond to them. All of them. If you have been running Mailman2, the move to Mailman3 is the most painless!! --=20 Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' =C2=AF\_(=E3=83=84)_/=C2=AF :-) --0000000000008b650e05f7aa4c4d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">= <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 5:10=E2=80=AF= PM doug <<a href=3D"mailto:doug@safeport.com">doug@safeport.com</a>> = wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0= px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Tue, 2= 1 Mar 2023, Pete Wright wrote:<br> <br> ><br> ><br> > On 3/21/23 12:22, <a href=3D"mailto:possessor.assizer305@aceecat.org" = target=3D"_blank">possessor.assizer305@aceecat.org</a> wrote:<br> >> On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 07:49:11PM +1100, Ian Smith wrote:<br> >> <br> >>> Ah, right.=C2=A0 Yet another consequence of the regressive mov= e from<br> >>> mailman plus pipermail to mlmmj is loss of clickable links in = the<br> >>> archived messages.=C2=A0 Duh!<br> >> Out of curiosity, what was the rationale for the move?<br> >> <br> >> My opinion:<br> >> Mailman has its warts but it's ubiquitous and well suited for<= br> >> a world where almost everything has to be done in the browser<br> >> for $REASONS.<br> >> <br> > my understanding is that mailman was tied to python2, and the next ver= sion of <br> > mailman (v3 iirc) that supports python3 is incompatible with the previ= ous <br> > version.=C2=A0 i think it also had a bunch of other shortcomings/issue= s.=C2=A0 so i <br> > suspect the lift to use mlmmj was easier than moving to mailman v3.<br= > ><br> > i agree its an unfortunate situation, but its i think it would be <br> > irresponsible to rely on python2 for such critical infrastructure.<br> ><br> Boo on the mailman project. There is a conversion utility that takes care <= br> of the syntax changes. The only maajor changes I hit were the MySQL, and a = <br> couple of DNS modules. In something as complex as mailman I am sure there <= br> was more but relative to just maintaining something that complex well <br> within there Python knowledge I would assume.</blockquote></div><div><br></= div>I have run Mailman2 since 2005. I am currently running Mailman3.<div>Ma= ilman2 relied on Python2.7. Mailman3 relies on Python3.</div><div>There is = a migration script for Mailman2 to Mailman3.</div><div>The installation for= Mailman3 is better done in a Python Virtual Environment.</div><div>Being a= FressBSD SysAddmin since I encountered FreeBSD in 1997, I can authoritativ= ely say that it is very easy to migrate.</div><div>And IF anyone needs assi= stance to migrate their Mailman2 lists to Mailman3, I am willing to hold th= eir hands.</div><div>Perhaps I should document the whole process. It is qui= te easy.</div><div>The only challenge I have faced is the startup script fo= r controlling Mailman3, but I have a rudimentary one that works.</div><div>= I am running Mailman3 on FreeBSD 13- RELEASE, if it matters.</div><div>I tr= ied Sympa, but waah. Never again.</div><div>If anyone has questions, I am w= illing to respond to them. All of them.</div><div>If you have been running = Mailman2, the move to Mailman3 is the most painless!!</div><div><br clear= =3D"all"><div><br></div><span class=3D"gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><b= r><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l= tr"><div>Best regards,<br>Odhiambo WASHINGTON,<br>Nairobi,KE<br>+254 7 3200= 0004/+254 7 2274 3223<br>"<span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Oh, the cr= uft.</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">",=C2=A0</span><span style= =3D"font-size:12.8px">egrep -v '^$|^.*#'=C2=A0</span><span style=3D= "background-color:rgb(34,34,34);color:rgb(238,238,238);font-family:"Lu= cida Console",Consolas,"Courier New",monospace;font-size:13.= 6px">=C2=AF\_(=E3=83=84)_/=C2=AF</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">=C2= =A0:-)</span></div></div></div></div></div></div> --0000000000008b650e05f7aa4c4d--
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