From nobody Tue Sep 7 18:44:09 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0F8117B0965 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 2021 18:44:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vk1-xa2e.google.com (mail-vk1-xa2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::a2e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4H3vML3rPwz4lbB; Tue, 7 Sep 2021 18:44:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: by mail-vk1-xa2e.google.com with SMTP id g34so71928vkd.11; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 11:44:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=O0g0+swz0B7I1ik533WRZMgehPI2+YSfmD0+g7aOf6s=; b=EI2B9PPUVQVhTaCxBUxAgmKlcpt73AM/Gs67sMhkst8AjZi72kBYgYiy4M+0lHD1KP +iwOE4dgQQgexar9buMseZHWAHT9NmFdn1UEFZvn1yNkSvMrjgM8mtYLTKCmxSwJ3nXW vag21I8c12c8+uRaJJXm9QYYXEvhewHAl+uj82/LKldcqWcWV0wD8eoapairBqB9kEM0 zcCa7fpstAGaAomaCWoQPUK8lgGla1eebEFv1Gsl8Fmkz+E3o+iFyHlZ5ThYPntSajhN 0l6asLBePg3V/998ZVmGCTnM03IJpVRoz8IOm6BlyeBdY+5KgVL0B6LM2DCfBP8ASDOQ fnyg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=O0g0+swz0B7I1ik533WRZMgehPI2+YSfmD0+g7aOf6s=; b=mdXdKfnuUrgtjPenC4nh9pbeZTPIv8Npn/cDPLNQbx4Rt6qv7+lI9GW+IKDjCDd6dD TcWQL//9xe9zGEQmXRieHrU03nXW6ExpT6I522tHyu8Jdhy7/DQ4hEHnbJ4ylnUvE0at h9thn4tSfoicX8Nuv9g/cBzl2djN1TpFzKbNS037/CEw/UxM0Ltdf2PvhPHzzkdXtxZY 0bHoa74zSVtEeI3sPsQJJYN3uiRkJeEs/CIxlziIuCzjowEDi1Qrx/nfzTYZDPZ9SmyF s/DgGnyX3seVzPZ1NRMk5FAX/yd+22zFULJVT/QVYh4XDL8I8QqUIy7B9z2Suo4wx6Bn f8qA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531nsQK54Yp6zcMXG72YBmU+Fpf7BfVcAo/u8AiQEqNNYbECYM8b f4liXUhEXYIsAlZRoQpaH4dGiuakBhUqKME9q3GhGwiIv5Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJysZIka9b8LlxR4T2CmCr3OADq0fnQFEtN/HhQ/n1nvnZb9tEHfDgy2OBC+UOpM7fNtszNAtV2MXvs3cKDcdhs= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:2f87:: with SMTP id v129mr9365294vkv.4.1631040285482; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 11:44:45 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2021 21:44:09 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Move the Handbook into source tree To: Wolfram Schneider Cc: freebsd-current Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d4a37d05cb6c28bf" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4H3vML3rPwz4lbB X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[] X-Spam: Yes X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: Y --000000000000d4a37d05cb6c28bf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 7:51 PM Wolfram Schneider wrote: > We have 3 main repos: src, ports and doc. There are good reasons why > we are doing this, and it will not change in the near future. For > further questions and details, please ask on the freebsd-docs mailing > list. > > You are right that the documentation on our web site is mostly for > -current, the state of the art of the code base. If you need the > documentation for our supported releases please check our > Documentation Archive at > > https://docs.freebsd.org/doc/ > > and select your favourite release, e.g. > > the handbook for FreeBSD 13.0 > > https://docs.freebsd.org/doc/13.0-RELEASE/usr/local/share/doc/freebsd/en/books/handbook/ > > the handbook for FreeBSD 12.0 > > https://docs.freebsd.org/doc/12.0-RELEASE/usr/local/share/doc/freebsd/en/books/handbook/ > > -Wolfram > > On Tue, 7 Sept 2021 at 09:03, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk > wrote: > > > > Dear All , > > > > in many of my messages to FreeBSD mailing lists I am mentioning the > > following view : > > > > "Please move the Handbook into source tree , and > > Maintain it with respect to current release without mixing sliding > > releases : If you do this , > > maintenance of a correct Handbook is IMPOSSIBLE because maintenance of > > associated IF statements about releases . > > " > > > > When we look at the following web pages , we see the following : > > > > https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi > > FreeBSD Manual Pages > > > > In the second box of "All sections" line , there are lines about all of > > the FreeBSD releases > > with many more other systems . > > > > In spite of this , in the following page : > > > > https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/ > > FreeBSD Handbook > > The FreeBSD Documentation Project > > > > > > " > > Abstract > > > > Welcome to FreeBSD! This handbook covers the installation and day to day > > use of > > FreeBSD 13.0-RELEASE, FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE and FreeBSD 11.4-RELEASE. ... > > " > > > > A Handbook which ( for me , exactly , for the others , perhaps ) with > many > > errors ... > > > > > > I think that , it is NOT extraordinarily a difficult process to move the > > Handbook into source > > tree and maintaining it with respect to per release and insert into the > > above web page a part > > similar to the manual pages to display the requested Handbook with > respect > > to releases . > > In the present case , previous handbooks are lost , because of the > > difficulty of finding them . > > > > Thank you very much and my best wishes for you and humanity in these > > pandemic days ... > > > > > > Mehmet Erol Sanliturk > > > If you consider me , now at home there is 4.4BSD Lite ( Version 2.0 . Released Sept 1995 ) as a memorial . I could not find any previous release because it is likely that I left them in my university during my retirement to allow them to install them in university student laboratories . Trouble is NOT ME , because since 1970 I have been in the computing area ( starting my work since 1966 ) . My PhD thesis is "A multimedia information management system ( 1995 )" getting two vetoes ( both of them being virtual ) , one PhD sufficiency examination because of "This thesis proposition is in very much upper level with respect to a PhD thesis requirements" , another veto in thesis defense because "We need to mention that , although this thesis is excellent , it is impossible to complete it as a PhD thesis due to its very complicated difficulty level . If we do not mention this , later on , if anyone sees our "Thesis defense evaluation report" may say that "How such a jury does not recognize the difficulty level of this thesis and does not mention it ." If all of you say "YES" , I will mention this point and say "NO" , but if any one of you says "NO" , my vote is "YES" . " They asked : "How did you do it ?" ... 'based on my vast experience and theoretical works performed previously " ... ( my primary work area is "Theoretical Computing Sciences" ) "Why did you not use simulation ? " ... "for me , writing a simulator is much more difficult than writing its own implementation sufficient to show its feasibility and usability ." ... Then trouble is an unusable handbook due to many errors spreaded over it due to its SLIDING nature of consisting of THREE separate releases . You may say that "The discussion area is in "docs" list . For me "NO" , because "It is a FreeBSD System Design Problem, not a 'docs' problem " , because use of FreeBSD is based on use of a handbook , because FreeBSD is not doing anything by itself , the only user doing everything . For this , the Handbook is a vital component for use of it . When tracking the mailing lists ( I am one of them , nearly the start of the Internet at least in my country Turkey ) mostly people are using it based on their experience or by reading sources . How can WE acquire such an expertise or is it possible that everyone will read the sources and use it ? I have mentioned this point very long ago , and I am repeating this point continuously without any tangible result . This difficulty is driving FreeBSD to a very small user base and then causing prevention of acceptance by large masses . I am not able to install FreeBSD due to its very complicated install system . I am not able to use FreeBSD due to its uncomprehensible *.conf files and incompatible KDE system ( for my needs . I do not use other ones because of my needs ) . ... There is a necessity to produce a ( usable , correct information containing handbook ) because everything is based on descriptions . It is not like Linux . I am installing Linux ( Fedora KDE , before Mandriva ) without using extra documentation . When it comes to FreeBSD , I am maintaining a thickest folder filled with flash cards . A new release is coming , requiring you to modify these cards . >From where ? From the Handbook ? Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk > > -- > Wolfram Schneider https://wolfram.schneider.org > --000000000000d4a37d05cb6c28bf--