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Date:      Tue, 19 Dec 2017 13:40:45 -0600 (CST)
From:      Ted Hatfield <ted@io-tx.com>
To:        Matthias Andree <matthias.andree@gmx.de>
Cc:        freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, Eugene Grosbein <eugen@grosbein.net>, Sunpoet Po-Chuan Hsieh <sunpoet@FreeBSD.org>
Subject:   Re: Procmail got updated!
Message-ID:  <alpine.BSF.2.20.1712191321070.18473@io-tx.com>
In-Reply-To: <f68594db-396b-0821-e90d-3f089781e8fd@gmx.de>
References:  <alpine.BSF.2.21.1712181012470.92288@aneurin.horsfall.org> <a3a1097d-22c7-89cc-dd69-b4ceeebf7228@gmx.de> <alpine.BSF.2.20.1712181824220.10261@io-tx.com> <f68594db-396b-0821-e90d-3f089781e8fd@gmx.de>

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On Tue, 19 Dec 2017, Matthias Andree wrote:
> Am 19.12.2017 um 01:30 schrieb Ted Hatfield:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 18 Dec 2017, Matthias Andree wrote:
>>
>>> Am 18.12.2017 um 00:17 schrieb Dave Horsfall:
>>>> Doing my regular update, and...
>>>>
>>>>     Upgrading procmail from 3.22_9 to 3.22_10...
>>>>
>>>> Good grief; who's the masochist who volunteered to support this
>>>> obscure insecure and hitherto-unsupported scripting language?
>>>>
>>> https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports?view=revision&revision=455800
>>>
>>> I'd agree we should pull the plug on the package. We'll be in for the
>>> usual "but it works for me" screaming of the irresponsible people who
>>> don't care (and most of them won't know that they need to write the
>>> exception/error handling themselves in their .procmailrc recipes).
>>>
>>> Sunpoet, can we mark the port as deprecated given that even the upstream
>>> once said it should best be abolished? I can't find the reference now,
>>> the procmail.org website displays "Site hosting in transit, information
>>> will be back up shortly."
>>>
>>
>> Dear Matthias,
>>
>> As one of the "irresponsible" people who is still using procmail on
>> our systems and has built an number of scripts and customer
>> infrastructure around it I take exception to the term irresponsible. 
>> Perhaps the better word is overworked.  If I had the time to move to
>> dovecot/sieve or maildrop as a local delivery agent I would have done
>> so by now.
>>
>> Ted Hatfield
>
> Dear Ted, Eugene,
>
> I think if the procmail language were a bit more "regular", someone
> would have written converter scripts long ago by now.
>
> Other than that, I find it hard to believe that people don't have time
> for over x in [3; 17] years to migrate, which in many cases would in my
> book be more a situation of "I don't want to..." rather than "I am
> unable to...". I don't mean to judge your situation, just that to me it
> looks a matter that you have not yet found it important enough to bother.
>
> Given that the former maintainer asked OpenBSD to pull the plug on the
> port already 37 months ago (see here
> <https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-ports&m=141634350915839&w=2>) after
> findings from fuzzing, and now to see security updates to a defunct
> upstream port, I don't think we should keep the port around for much
> longer. The expiration I was proposing isn't "axe it out now", we would
> not normally do that, and it's at the maintainer's (i. e. sunpoet@'s)
> discretion what expiration date, if any, will be set.
>
> But the question if we as downstream packagers/providers want to step in
> for a package abolished by the upstream almost a generation ago, is one
> that needs serious consideration. I wouldn't endorse that the project
> waste time on decrepit ports for which decent alternatives exist.
>
>
> Best,
> Matthias
>

Matthias,

My response wasn't meant to disprove your argument.  There is a valid case 
behind dropping support for procmail and you are welcome to make that 
argument.

>From my point of view (and I bet quite a few others) I've been using a 
software product provided by the port maintainers for quite a long time. 
During that time I've kept my software up to date and patched.  As far as 
I am concerned I've done my due dilligence.

If you want to make an argument against maintaining procmail I completely 
understand that.  I just don't think that denigrating others while making 
your argument is the way to go about it.


Ted Hatfield



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