From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed May 15 15:44:48 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 212281595F8B for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 15:44:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9342590E1F for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 15:44:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 4EC2F1595F89; Wed, 15 May 2019 15:44:47 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13E9F1595F88; Wed, 15 May 2019 15:44:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from slim.berklix.org (slim.berklix.org [94.185.90.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "slim.berklix.org", Issuer "slim.berklix.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25E0190E19; Wed, 15 May 2019 15:44:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from mart.js.berklix.net (p2E52CF95.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [46.82.207.149]) (authenticated bits=128) by slim.berklix.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x4FFie6a019980 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 15 May 2019 17:44:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (fire.js.berklix.net [192.168.91.41]) by mart.js.berklix.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id x4FFidIQ072255; Wed, 15 May 2019 17:44:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Received: from fire.js.berklix.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire.js.berklix.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id x4FFiR0G067138; Wed, 15 May 2019 17:44:39 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from jhs@berklix.com) Message-Id: <201905151544.x4FFiR0G067138@fire.js.berklix.net> To: Alan Somers Cc: FreeBSD Core Team , FreeBSD Stable ML , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins. From: "Julian H. Stacey" Organization: http://berklix.com/jhs http://stolenvotes.uk User-agent: EXMH on FreeBSD http://berklix.com/free/ X-From: http://www.berklix.org/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message "Wed, 15 May 2019 08:32:26 -0600." Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 17:44:27 +0200 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 25E0190E19 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.99 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.77)[0.773,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[berklix.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.40)[0.401,0]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; IP_SCORE(0.16)[ip: (0.58), ipnet: 94.185.88.0/22(0.29), asn: 33824(-0.07), country: DE(-0.01)]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: slim.berklix.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.77)[0.772,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[68.90.185.94.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:33824, ipnet:94.185.88.0/22, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[149.207.82.46.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.10] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 15:44:48 -0000 Hi, Reference: > From: Alan Somers > Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 08:32:26 -0600 Alan Somers wrote: > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 8:26 AM Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > > > Hi core@, > > cc hackers@ & stable@ > > > > PR headline : "FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins." > > > > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2019-May/date.html > > > > Volunteers who contribute actual fixes are very much appreciated; > > But those styled as 'management' who delay announcements to batch floods > > damage us. As they've previously refused to stop, it's time to sack them. > > > > Just send each announcement out when ready, no delays to batch them. > > No sys admins can deal with 8 in 3 mins: > > Especially on multiple systems & releases. Recipients start > > mitigating, then more flood in, & need review which are > > most urgent to interrupt to; While also avoiding sudden upgrades > > to many servers & releases, to minimise disturbing server users, > > bosses & customers. > > > > Cheers, > > Julian > > -- > > Julian Stacey, Consultant Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich Aachen Kent > > http://stolenvotes.uk Brexit ref. stole votes from 700,000 Brits in EU. > > Lies bought; Groups fined; 1.9 M young had no vote, 1.3 M old leavers died. > > I disagree, Julian. I think SAs are easier to deal with when they're > batched. True, I can't fix the first one in less than 3 minutes. But > then I probably wouldn't even notice it that fast. Batching them all > together means fewer updates and reboots. Batching also means some of these vulnerabilities could have been fixed earlier & less of a surge of demand on recipient admins time. An admin can find time to ameliorate 1 bug, not 8 suddenly together. Avoidance is called planning ahead. Giving warning of a workload. Like an admin plans ahead & announces an outage schedule for planned upgrade. Suddenly dumping 8 on admins causes overload on admin manpower. 8 reason for users to approach admin in parallel & say "FreeBSD seems riddled, how long will all the sudden unplanned outages take ? Should we just dump it ?" Dont want negative PR & lack of management. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, Consultant Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich Aachen Kent http://stolenvotes.uk Brexit ref. stole votes from 700,000 Brits in EU. Lies bought; Groups fined; 1.9 M young had no vote, 1.3 M old leavers died.