From nobody Mon May 25 07:51:01 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4gP7Nw0fnkz6drPY for ; Mon, 25 May 2026 07:51:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo75.interia.pl (smtpo75.interia.pl [217.74.67.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4gP7Nv0WWxz3jRp for ; Mon, 25 May 2026 07:51:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [45.148.42.7]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.interia.pl (INTERIA.PL) with ESMTPSA; Mon, 25 May 2026 09:51:01 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B5r0yTzxVk002g7bOLDfUISr" Message-ID: <7a0f1e46-b18d-455d-9b1c-f93131dae0bb@interia.pl> Date: Mon, 25 May 2026 09:51:01 +0200 List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Proposal: Improve BE naming convention in freebsd-update install To: Takashi Shimizu , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <70da0c5b-c865-44e9-8c19-abb1cd779efe@shirt.ocn.ne.jp> Content-Language: en-US From: vermaden In-Reply-To: <70da0c5b-c865-44e9-8c19-abb1cd779efe@shirt.ocn.ne.jp> X-IPL-Priority-Group: 0-0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=dk; t=1779695462; bh=mMOIey04tvT+Xavp9O0yZboLfayOFP/4tnnM3YPL6kw=; h=Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:From; b=A5+JFvMFaaK51h8mwnyheh+JbDhsd0kUsGTwStgnTeMQ+Vu5E3Pt2qk6jKhkhfR1m NH9yhgsZrQ+vTWusDW7M0pQ4bbXmZX2I85jV5+wXN9CUwNWLi//wIt1Y+d8fLrwlsi 2rOiI5APN3R7ARhIQ8O7aXTwA6tl21Crmll0El3c= X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4gP7Nv0WWxz3jRp X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B5r0yTzxVk002g7bOLDfUISr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi. On 5/24/26 1:53 PM, Takashi Shimizu wrote: > > 1. > > The name "default" is misleading. It suggests "the BE that boots > by default" or "the latest running state", but in practice it is > just the residue of the initial installation, with no NR flag. The > name and its actual purpose are mismatched. > To understand 'default' name choose you will have to move back in time to 2012 when I implemented *beadm(8)* for FreeBSD: - https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/howto-freebsd-zfs-madness.31662/ The *pool/ROOT/default *was back then (and probably is still now) used by default on Solaris/Illumos - so I just recreated that - along with *beadm(8) *tool - its parameters and messages. Of course it can be changed - right now I use something like that personally: f25 vermaden ~ %*beadm list* BE            Active Mountpoint  Space Created 14.4          NR     /           29.3G 2026-03-01 11:03 14.4.safe.OLD -      -            7.3G 2026-05-08 01:19 14.4.safe     -      -            1.6G 2026-05-18 20:48 15.0          -      -           12.7G 2026-05-21 12:24 On 5/25/26 2:40 AM, Edward Sanford Sutton, III wrote: > I still feel like my understanding of BEs is a bit weak and am still > learning but is seems there are common misconceptions shared around > about them. I tried to explain /ZFS Boot Environments/ multiple times ... but I still am not sure if I succeeded: - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2025/11/25/zfs-boot-environments-explained/ - https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2022/03/14/zfs-boot-environments-revolutions/ - https://is.gd/BECTL Hope that helps. Regards, vermaden --------------B5r0yTzxVk002g7bOLDfUISr Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi.

On 5/24/26 1:53 PM, Takashi Shimizu wrote:

  1. The name "default" is misleading. It suggests "the BE that boots by default" or "the latest running state", but in practice it is just the residue of the initial installation, with no NR flag. The name and its actual purpose are mismatched.

To understand 'default' name choose you will have to move back in time to 2012 when I implemented beadm(8) for FreeBSD:

- https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/howto-freebsd-zfs-madness.31662/

The pool/ROOT/default was back then (and probably is still now) used by default on Solaris/Illumos - so I just recreated that - along with beadm(8) tool - its parameters and messages.

Of course it can be changed - right now I use something like that personally:

f25 vermaden ~ % beadm list
BE            Active Mountpoint  Space Created
14.4          NR     /           29.3G 2026-03-01 11:03
14.4.safe.OLD -      -            7.3G 2026-05-08 01:19
14.4.safe     -      -            1.6G 2026-05-18 20:48
15.0          -      -           12.7G 2026-05-21 12:24




On 5/25/26 2:40 AM, Edward Sanford Sutton, III wrote:
I still feel like my understanding of BEs is a bit weak and am still learning but is seems there are common misconceptions shared around about them.

I tried to explain ZFS Boot Environments multiple times ... but I still am not sure if I succeeded:

- https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2025/11/25/zfs-boot-environments-explained/

- https://vermaden.wordpress.com/2022/03/14/zfs-boot-environments-revolutions/

- https://is.gd/BECTL


Hope that helps.


Regards,

vermaden




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