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Date:      Sun, 13 May 2001 23:06:08 +1000
From:      "Doug Young" <dougy@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
To:        <michael@tenzo.com>, "Kris Kennaway" <kris@obsecurity.org>, "Rahul Siddharthan" <rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in>
Cc:        "Kathy Quinlan" <katinka@magestower.com>, "Sue Blake" <sue@welearn.com.au>, "N6REJ" <n6rej@tcsn.net>, <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG>, <freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   Re: I'm leaving
Message-ID:  <017301c0dbad$7a80f230$0300a8c0@oracle>
References:  <002b01c0db54$e0febaa0$5599ca3f@disappointment> <20010513033434.A54250@xor.obsecurity.org> <003101c0dba1$181a7aa0$0300a8c0@oracle> <01051305121800.01335@h24-69-46-74.gv.shawcable.net>

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> Rather than putting valuable effort into a "default GUI install", I
think
> Doug's suggestion of extending the documentation in this area makes
a lot of
> sense. For instance, a gentle overview of cvsup would be really
useful. I was
> able to figure it out from the Handbook but only because I'd read an
article
> describing the wonder of FreeBSD makefiles. A simple conceptual
overview of
> how packages are installed would have helped me a lot.
>
As I've said countless times,  "simple conceptual overviews"  that
include ALL the necessary information in one place help heaps of
users. However I'm certain that the quickest & probably most efficient
way to achieve this is for some non-expert to produce the stuff.. It
seems many experts are too busy to produce explicit docs / don't
perceive a need to be explicit / fail to comprehend the utter
confusion caused to newbies by most man pages. OK so the non-expert
can't possibly know enough to explain EVERYTHING, but thats not the
issue here. Newbies rarely have the need / desire / ability to do
anything real tricky ... in the vast majority of cases, all thats
needed is a mere fraction of the info available from Greg Lehey's
book, the Handbook, mailing list archives, etc, but with relevant
background / assumed prior knowledge / etc, all readily available in a
step_by_step format .... lots of visuals don't go astray either.

I believe I've done a reasonable job of this stuff as far as I've gone
with the Pedantic FreeBSD ...
at least the hundreds of complimentary emails I've received over the
past year would suggest that it fills a need that other stuff doesn't.
Trouble is it needs a heap more work done to include info on
ADSL PPPoE / broadband cable / X / CVSUP / etc etc & time is, as
always, at a premium. Such is life I guess ...... like I've always
said "whats the use complaining .... nobody takes any notice :)"



> M.
>
> On Sunday 13 May 2001 04:37, Doug Young wrote:
> > I've been thinking of doing something akin to the Pedantic FreeBSD
> > style HOWTO
> > on X ... some sort of really explict documentation with ALL the
> > information needed to get a functional GUI,  however I'd need to
start
> > from scratch as every FreeBSD system I've had anything to do with
has
> > been straight command line. From questions I've been seeing in the
> > questions list, it appears that hardware support is the main issue
> > that creates the bulk of the problems. Who would be the best to
advise
> > on some readily available & reasonably priced videocards /
chipsets
> > that ALWAYS work without problems ?? eg I've generally stuck with
AGP
> > versions of those 8Mb ATI Rage Pro things for both W2K & Solaris
> > systems because I've never had a hint of trouble getting things to
> > work / they give 16 bit 1024x768 easily they are affordable in OZ
....
> > maybe they aren't the best for XFree but surely someone must know
a
> > couple of videocards that suit. (and please everyone don't say
Matrox
> > because the price in OZ is extortionate !!)
> >
> > > Would it be a good idea to have a "default GUI install" as one
of
> >
> > the
> >
> > > install options, which sets up either KDE or GNOME, and a web
> >
> > browser,
> >
> > > and desktop icons for the HTML-ised version of the FreeBSD
handbook?
> >
> > Jordan and others have tried many times to get people to submit
good,
> > newbie-friendly "default GUI environments", with close to zero
> > community response.  Yes, it would be a good idea, SOMEONE PLEASE
DO
> > THE WORK! :-)
> >
> >
> >
> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> > with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
>
> --
> Michael O'Henly
>


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