From owner-svn-src-all@freebsd.org Sat Jan 27 21:32:35 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25607EC39FE; Sat, 27 Jan 2018 21:32:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 820B27AB77; Sat, 27 Jan 2018 21:32:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: from pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id w0RLWMHE011257; Sat, 27 Jan 2018 13:32:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd@localhost) by pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id w0RLWMqi011256; Sat, 27 Jan 2018 13:32:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from freebsd) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <201801272132.w0RLWMqi011256@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: svn commit: r328257 - in head/sys: arm/broadcom/bcm2835 dts/arm modules In-Reply-To: <20180127214840.dc033d582696ff7b51f6d7e6@bidouilliste.com> To: Emmanuel Vadot Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 13:32:22 -0800 (PST) CC: Adrian Chadd , Poul-Henning Kamp , Warner Losh , John Baldwin , Ravi Pokala , src-committers , svn-src-all@freebsd.org, svn-src-head@freebsd.org Reply-To: rgrimes@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 21:32:35 -0000 > On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 12:13:57 -0800 > Adrian Chadd wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > Find the middle ground. Don't dissuade the developer too much. > > This is what happened two years ago when I started hacking on the > allwinner SoCs : > > - I asked what should be done for bringing a new board > - andrew@ told me that we first need to switch to upstream dts and > update drivers. > - Guess what, I did that. Great, thats good co-operatation and communications, sometimes though it is not so smooth. The better we become at dealing with the not so smooth the faster forward progress can be made. > > Here's an example: > > > > Make the driver follow DTS, allow a tunable/kenv check for it to > > override whether it needs to be in the DTS or not (the "keep phk happy > > for now" compromise) and have it default to obeying the device tree. > > > > That way phk is kept happy and the defaults are the same as normal-ish > > ARM /and/ you have a springboard to experiment with extending FDT > > overlays at runtime for people who wish to do so. > > I don't care about keeping phk@ (or any other developer) happy, we > have a standard, let's stick to it. *sigh* Let me ask you if you do not care about keeping any other developers happy, why should any of them be concerned about keeping you happy? We need to always try to find middle ground and co-operate in positive ways. On the "we have a standard" front, well when standards get in the way of forward progress they are often side stepped. Maybe this standard is not such a good standard and warts are going to form around it. I have seen some discusssion at least on ways to improve the current situation, hopefully someone takes them and runs with them. Others have pointed out they do not like the current model in that it gets in the way of developement progress. I can see this point. I can see phk's points, and I can see your points. IMHO if we shove the standard down our own throats we are in effect cutting our hands off in the process, not somethig we really want to do is it? > > (I personally hate having to edit the dts/recompile/reboot for every > > test hardware change; it makes breadboarding things up kinda > > hilariously annoying.) > > Use overlays then. And if you don't want to reboot provide patch for > loading overlays at runtime. Are those the only solutions? > > -adrian > Emmanuel Vadot -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org