From nobody Thu Jun 5 16:07:48 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bCq9X2B6Jz5y2bf; Thu, 05 Jun 2025 16:08:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl) Received: from plan-b.pwste.edu.pl (plan-b.pwste.edu.pl [IPv6:2001:678:618::40]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "plan-b.pwste.edu.pl", Issuer "GEANT OV RSA CA 4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bCq9X08KPz3gKH; Thu, 05 Jun 2025 16:07:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from [192.168.7.70] (dom.potoki.eu [62.133.140.50]) (authenticated bits=0) by plan-b.pwste.edu.pl (8.18.1/8.17.2) with ESMTPSA id 555G7o03084308 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 5 Jun 2025 18:07:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=plan-b.pwste.edu.pl; s=plan-b-mailer; t=1749139671; bh=b0Y13nnRN42EHje/85yF+bTazs/VEXYn+JSi9F89W6A=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=FJylzaI9DHYvOD+rGXfx9IxuuejvrglASCvTRVesR+AwIfvOAe8ehHpZcKbVFvq54 yKCMcj8y5ewCsLYsxwmrsarNAlQBeMxAsCbN/FygxJrH4+3XII2VSev8nyJhoA00CL udaF6CNJqwz73wktidpv+4RzdLmC9enWsrgPoPDbCeO0VNd/lM6j+M5mrfB/Y4kvAH 6nC2rLhGR5jUeKVMlw/G9QPe9W3XwuQHi040hSc3P2VhRj74J4njPXEvOeO7j0NgJU +k/78j6cLXYKV8I5DJF4fZPT3CLJ9gvRpfiqMfICSatisiRlca3+Mr8Vo+UhZoGjeh lhWZg2LyymC8w== X-Authentication-Warning: plan-b.pwste.edu.pl: Host dom.potoki.eu [62.133.140.50] claimed to be [192.168.7.70] Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2025 18:07:48 +0200 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: HEADS UP: wireless KPI and KBI and FreeBSD 15 To: "Bjoern A. Zeeb" , FreeBSD wireless mailing list Cc: current@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org, desktop@freebsd.org References: <114q5890-nrs9-55r5-44n9-86506985490s@SerrOFQ.bet> Content-Language: en-US From: Marek Zarychta Autocrypt: addr=zarychtam@plan-b.pwste.edu.pl; keydata= xsBNBFfi3cMBCADLecMTFXad4uDXqv3eRuB4qJJ8G9tzzFezeRnnwxOsPdytW5ES2z1ibSrR IsiImx6+PTqrAmXpTInxAi7yiZGdSiONRI4CCxKY9d1YFiNYT/2WyNXCekm9x29YeIU7x0JB Llbz0f/9HC+styBIu2H+PY/X98Clzm110CS+n/b9l1AtiGxTiVFj7/uavYAKxH6LNWnbkuc5 v8EVNc7NkEcl5h7Z9X5NEtzDxTOiBIFQ/kOT7LAtkYUPo1lqLeOM2DtWSXTXQgXl0zJI4iP1 OAu4qQYm2nXwq4b2AH9peknelvnt1mpfgDCGSKnhc26q6ibTfMwydp+tvUtQIQYpA6b9ABEB AAHNN01hcmVrIFphcnljaHRhIChQbGFuLWIpIDx6YXJ5Y2h0YW1AcGxhbi1iLnB3c3RlLmVk dS5wbD7CwHcEEwEIACEFAlfi4LkCGwMFCwkIBwIGFQgJCgsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQHZW8 vIFppoJXdgf8D9X3VRFSNaR9lthSx/+uqas17J3FJKBo1xMQsC2a+44vzNvYJSuPGLLJ+LW2 HPVazjP/BWZJbxOYpliY4zxNRU0YCp0BLIVLibc//yax+mE42FND/+NiIZhqJscl6MLPrSwo sIwXec4XYkldkyqW/xBbBYXoIkBqdKB9j5j42Npy1IV/RizOSdmvTWY27ir8e/yGMR1RLr4F 8P5K3OWTdlGy2H2F/3J8bIPBLG6FpaIyLQw4dHSx8V02PYqDxK1cNo2kAOnU8PnZL/AGuMOH iv3MN1VYL8ehcmpBBsrZGebQJxrjY2/5IaTSgp9xHYT70kshuU6Qb97vk1mOjNZxgc7ATQRX 4t3DAQgA10h6RCXuBLMHxq5B8X/ZIlj9sgLoeyfRdDZEc9rT2KUeUJVHDsbvOFf4/7F1ovWY hJbA6GK/LUZeHHTjnbZcH1uDYQeHly4UOLxeEvhGoz4JhS2C7JzN/uRnwbdOAUbJr8rUj/IY a7gk906rktsc/Ldrxrxh7O6WO0JCh2XO/p4pDfEwwB37g4xHprSab28ECYJ9JMbtA8Sy4M55 g3+GQ28FvSlGnx48OoGXU2BZdc1vZKSQmNOlikB+9/hDX8zdYWVfDaX1TLQ8Ib4+xTUmapza mV/bxIsaZRBw+jFjLQHhTbIMfPEU+4mxFDvTdbKPruKPqVf1ydgMnPZWngowdwARAQABwsBf BBgBCAAJBQJX4t3DAhsMAAoJEB2VvLyBaaaC6qkIAJs9sDPqrqW0bYoRfzY6XjDWQ59p9tJi v8aogxacQNCfAu+WkJ8PNVUtC1dlVcG5NnZ80gXzd1rc8ueIvXlvdanUt/jZd8jbb3gaDbK3 wh1yMCGBl/1fOJTyEGYv1CRojv97KK89KP5+r8x1P1iHcSrunlDNqGxTMydNCwBH23QcOM+m u4spKnJ/s0VRBkw3xoKBZfZza6fTQ4gTpAipjyk7ldOGBV+PvkKATdhK2yLwuWXhKbg/GRlD 1r5P0gxzSqfV4My+KJuc2EDcrqp1y0wOpE1m9iZqCcd0fup5f7HDsYlLWshr7NQl28f6+fQb sylq/j672BHXsdeqf/Ip9V4= In-Reply-To: <114q5890-nrs9-55r5-44n9-86506985490s@SerrOFQ.bet> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bCq9X08KPz3gKH X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:206006, ipnet:2001:678:618::/48, country:PL] W dniu 4.06.2025 o 19:51, Bjoern A. Zeeb pisze: > Hello, > > Cc: wireless, current, stable, desktop > > FreeBSD WiFi development has regained traction.  We are facing a > decision with FreeBSD 15 coming before the end of this year [1]. > > In order to continue WiFi development, upcoming changes will inevitably > break the net80211-driver and net80211-userland interfaces. > By FreeBSD's standards those would not be mergeable to stable branches, > such as stable/15 then. > > This would imply development happening in FreeBSD 16-CURRENT (main at > that point) would stay there.  The first release to ship anything major > beyond now would be FreeBSD 16.0 in December 2027 [1]. > > After some discussion we think this is not a feasible solution and we > will declare the KPI and KBI for wireless as unstable in FreeBSD 15. > > This allows us to merge changes from main into stable/15 for inclusion > in future point releases (e.g., 15.1, 15.2, etc.) as the code matures. > However, this also means that during the lifetime of FreeBSD 15, we may > introduce breaking changes affecting out-of-tree and in-tree drivers, > userland-kernel interfaces, and chipsets.  We will address these > disruptions as they arise. > > Before finalizing this decision, we invite feedback from the community. > If you have concerns or objections, please speak up now. > > Bjoern (on behalf of the Wireless Development Team) > Tom > Adrian > Ed > Joe > > [1] https://www.freebsd.org/releng/ > This is a long-awaited change. Let's not be afraid of it. It will likely prove just as successful as moving graphics drivers from the base system to the ports tree. Now, the transition would be much less painful thanks to the availability of the new kmod repositories. Many thanks for the WiFi improvements, for the heads up, and for inquiring in the community ! -- Marek Zarychta