From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 22 22:18:34 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 621E4106564A; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 22:18:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peterjeremy@acm.org) Received: from fallbackmx06.syd.optusnet.com.au (fallbackmx06.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.132.8]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F81D8FC0C; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 22:18:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail36.syd.optusnet.com.au (mail36.syd.optusnet.com.au [211.29.133.76]) by fallbackmx06.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id p1MKvt6Z014932; Wed, 23 Feb 2011 07:57:55 +1100 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (c220-239-116-103.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.239.116.103]) by mail36.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id p1MKvoTf025265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 23 Feb 2011 07:57:52 +1100 X-Bogosity: Ham, spamicity=0.000000 Received: from server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (localhost.vk2pj.dyndns.org [127.0.0.1]) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p1MKvgeY034606; Wed, 23 Feb 2011 07:57:42 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org) Received: (from peter@localhost) by server.vk2pj.dyndns.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p1MKvfPe034605; Wed, 23 Feb 2011 07:57:41 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from peter) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 07:57:41 +1100 From: Peter Jeremy To: Devin Teske Message-ID: <20110222205741.GA34103@server.vk2pj.dyndns.org> References: <4D35CFFB.3010302@freebsd.org> <201102211612.51233.josh@tcbug.org> <201102220103.20158.josh@tcbug.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-PGP-Key: http://members.optusnet.com.au/peterjeremy/pubkey.asc User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Installer Roadmap X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 22:18:34 -0000 --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2011-Feb-22 02:50:54 -0800, Devin Teske wrote: >That's the operative word here ("supports"). Lord help us when that >changes to "requires" (that is to say, if/when the FreeBSD kernel >becomes legacy-free with respect to supporting fdisk/disklabel >partitioned disks). When that does come, it will probably be driven by BIOS and hardware vendors dropping support for MBR. Current disks are at the upper limit of what MBR can be support (and that's after several revamps of MBR). Since GPT already provides a superior feature set without MBR's limits, the next step will be to just drop MBR support. And when it does come, FreeBSD needs to be ready with an installer that can cope with non-MBR disks. >We've yet to see a "must have" technology that would require us to >shun sysinstall (as explained earlier, we have no desire whatsoever >to boot from ZFS, gmirror, geli, GPT, or anything else missing from >sysinstall). Whilst _you_ might not be interested, lots of other people _are_ interested in using these features - I personally use a mixture of gmirror, GPT and ZFS root on different systems. Why should other people be forced to avoid these features just because you don't use them? FreeBSD's installer should support the same features as FreeBSD itself for consistency. >pedestals... why would we ever need >8GB for the operating system? >all production data is being stored on enterprise class devices such >as the NEC-D210, and being backed up with tapes such as LTO; Not everyone uses FreeBSD in the same environment as you. >We're no stranger to putting even the Operating System on Life >Support for as long as it takes for our customers to bolster their >budgets for an integrated upgrade strategy. Given that you've already said you are staying with FreeBSD 4.11, why are you at all worried about FreeBSD using a new installed in FreeBSD 9 to support features that don't exist in FreeBSD 4? FreeBSD is primarily a volunteer project. Whilst you may be an expert on the innards of sysinstall, this seems to be a rare skill and no-one (including yourself) has stepped up and offered to add the missing functionality to sysinstall. It's worth noting that the original author of sysinstall considered it to be a temporary stop-gap until something better was developed. The increasing disparity between FreeBSD's features, together with the opaqueness of sysinstall have led to a replacement being developed. No-one is forcing you to replace sysinstall on your legacy systems but if you want sysinstall to remain the default installer, you are going to need to add the missing functionality to it. --=20 Peter Jeremy --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk1kI0UACgkQ/opHv/APuIcwwQCgwLVkfv7xsgCYQMsSfiaco7uY 0PwAn1umUCZhxR6ah5Os+zL7HuBpFCik =5low -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL--