From owner-freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Tue Apr 30 17:29:22 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98EA915989B8 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 17:29:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wollman@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu) Received: from khavrinen.csail.mit.edu (khavrinen.csail.mit.edu [IPv6:2603:400a:0:7ec::801e:1c14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "khavrinen.csail.mit.edu", Issuer "Client CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 609BE84A2F for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 17:29:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wollman@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu) Received: from khavrinen.csail.mit.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by khavrinen.csail.mit.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x3UHTGxp004649 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL CN=khavrinen.csail.mit.edu issuer=Client+20CA); Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:29:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wollman@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu) Received: (from wollman@localhost) by khavrinen.csail.mit.edu (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x3UHTGSP004648; Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:29:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wollman) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <23752.34284.56207.860696@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:29:16 -0400 From: Garrett Wollman To: Cy Schubert Cc: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CFT: FreeBSD Package Base In-Reply-To: <8B10CAFD-88A1-4DAD-92C2-93F5DE4B3402@cschubert.com> References: <201904291441.x3TEfMid072751@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> <201904291931.x3TJV73d079802@slippy.cwsent.com> <23751.25464.908633.101215@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu> <8B10CAFD-88A1-4DAD-92C2-93F5DE4B3402@cschubert.com> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 26.1 (amd64-portbld-freebsd11.2) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (khavrinen.csail.mit.edu [127.0.0.1]); Tue, 30 Apr 2019 13:29:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 609BE84A2F X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=csail.mit.edu; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wollman@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu designates 2603:400a:0:7ec::801e:1c14 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=wollman@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.31 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.995,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.996,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.19)[0.189,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: khavrinen.csail.mit.edu]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[csail.mit.edu,none]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[wollman@csail.mit.edu,wollman@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[wollman@csail.mit.edu, wollman@khavrinen.csail.mit.edu] X-BeenThere: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Packaging the FreeBSD base system." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 17:29:22 -0000 < said: > An anaconda-like installer for freebsd could do that. Also a perfect job for cfengine or ansible. Deploy and use a playbook to enforce policy. "make delete-old" is inherently interactive. ("yes | make delete-old" will delete configuration files that shouldn't be deleted.) Likewise etcupdate. > You don't need to break up base into packages (not arguing against > packaging) to gain the benefits of configuration management. Huh? We have plenty of configuration management already. What I need is an automated process for installing updates that doesn't require a huge pile more sui-generis infrastructure. > As for updating, freebsd-update is mostly there to accomplish your > requirement without pkgbase. Except that it requires a huge pile of infrastructure to build and distribute updates. I'd rather have only one, thanks. > Which begs the question, if we're simply replacing freebsd-update > and it does most of what we want why the extra effort? Anyone who isn't using a completely stock make.conf/src.conf is already replacing freebsd-update, and it would be much *less* effort to have only one mechanism to distribute software rather than two. I'd like to have a better installation process, too, because that would make it much easier to redeploy servers. But most of our servers are file servers with unique user data so "redeploy" is not a relevant operation much of the time. -GAWollman