From owner-freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Fri May 18 21:53:17 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45EE0EDD88A for ; Fri, 18 May 2018 21:53:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from kib.kiev.ua (kib.kiev.ua [IPv6:2001:470:d5e7:1::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1C106B8B3 for ; Fri, 18 May 2018 21:53:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from tom.home (kib@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kib.kiev.ua (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w4ILr1lr008896 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 19 May 2018 00:53:04 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 kib.kiev.ua w4ILr1lr008896 Received: (from kostik@localhost) by tom.home (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id w4ILr0lN008895; Sat, 19 May 2018 00:53:00 +0300 (EEST) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: tom.home: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Sat, 19 May 2018 00:53:00 +0300 From: Konstantin Belousov To: Johannes Lundberg Cc: Ben Widawsky , Warner Losh , Steve Kargl , Andreas Nilsson , FreeBSD X11 mailing list , Current FreeBSD Subject: Re: [RFC] Deprecation and removal of the drm2 driver Message-ID: <20180518215300.GE6887@kib.kiev.ua> References: <3a5edc5c-3caa-830b-4bd9-53ff52feb8a7@freebsd.org> <20180518193009.GA88432@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20180518202200.dks3twrlfyhmcgbb@mail.bwidawsk.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.5 (2018-04-13) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FREEMAIL_FROM,NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on tom.home X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 21:53:17 -0000 On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 09:33:40PM +0100, Johannes Lundberg wrote: > On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 9:22 PM, Ben Widawsky wrote: > > > On 18-05-18 14:15:03, Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 2:12 PM, Johannes Lundberg > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 9:03 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 1:30 PM, Steve Kargl < > > > >> sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 09:14:24PM +0200, Andreas Nilsson wrote: > > > >> > > On Fri, May 18, 2018, 20:00 Niclas Zeising > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > I propose that we remove the old drm2 driver (sys/dev/drm2) from > > > >> > > > FreeBSD. I suggest the driver is marked as deprecated in 11.x > > and > > > >> > > > removed from 12.0, as was done for other drivers recently. Some > > > >> > > > background and rationale: > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > The drm2 driver was the original port of a KMS driver to > > FreeBSD. > > > >> It > > > >> > > > was done by Konstantin Belousov to support Intel graphics > > cards, and > > > >> > > > later extended by Jean-S??bastien P??dron as well as Konstantin to > > > >> match > > > >> > > > what's in Linux 3.8. This included unstable support from > > Haswell, > > > >> but > > > >> > > > nothing newer than that. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > For quite some time now we have had the > > graphics/drm-stable-kmod and > > > >> > > > graphics/drm-next-kmods which provides support for modern AMD > > and > > > >> Intel > > > >> > > > graphics cards. These ports, together with the linuxkpi, or > > lkpi, > > > >> has > > > >> > > > made it significantly easier to port and update our graphics > > > >> drivers. > > > >> > > > Further, these new drivers cover the same drivers as the old > > drm2 > > > >> > driver. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > What does the community think? Is there anyone still using the > > drm2 > > > >> > > > driver on 12-CURRENT? If so, what is preventing you from > > switching > > > >> to > > > >> > > > the port? > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Thank you > > > >> > > > Regards > > > >> > > > -- > > > >> > > > Niclas Zeising > > > >> > > > FreeBSD x11/graphics team > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > >> > > > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > > > >> > > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > > > >> > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@ > > > >> > freebsd.org" > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Sounds good ( deprecate resp remove ). It causes more confusion > > and > > > >> > > problems and it solves nothing. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > Check the Makefiles > > > >> > > > > >> > % more /usr/ports/graphics/drm-next-kmod/Makefile > > > >> > > > > >> > ONLY_FOR_ARCHS= amd64 > > > >> > ONLY_FOR_ARCHS_REASON= the new KMS components are only supported on > > > >> amd64 > > > >> > > > > >> > Not to ia32 friendly. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> So do people use i386 for desktop? And need the latest KMS stuff? > > > >> > > > > > > > > Yeah I was wondering the same.. If you're running i386, do you need drm > > > > drivers? Will scfb work an i386? (probably has legacy bios and if I > > > > remember correctly, scfb is UEFI only) > > > > I do feel sorry for anyone who would have to revert back to VESA... > > > > > > > > Would it be too much trouble to move it to a port? > > > > > > > > > > If there's someone who needs it for i386, and wants to do the work and > > > maintain it, we should allow it. But the drm2 maintainers have said its > > > likely totally broken anyway. > > > > > > Warner > > > > As a long time developer in drm/i915, and newly interested in FreeBSD (ie. > > no > > history on the matter), is there some upside and/or desire to have native > > support, or is the drm-next-kmod solution good enough? > > > > Given the fast evolution of graphics hardware and the amount of code in > only the AMD and Intel drivers, keep several native implementations seems > impossible, if not wasteful. > If you are referring to drm2 in the kernel, that's not much more native > than the drm kmods, it still uses a linux compatibility layer (but not as > sophisticated). Drm2 does not use linux compat layer. drm2 is probably better on older chipsets which use AGP emulation, i.e. everything up to SandyBridge-1. Does drm-next run on gen3 and gen4 at all ? In particular, I did obtained real bug reports from people running gen 3 hardware. E.g. you cannot run amd64 kernel on T60, but you can run i386 and get hw support with drm2. I still have GM45 (gen4) laptop and use it daily with the drm from the tree. I effectively dropped supporting it when half of the HSW support code were imported. > > If we were to focus our effort somewhere, it should be to create a Common > Kernel Programming Interface for Linux and *BSDs, especially for DRM > drivers. Something a bit more stable that what we see in Linux today.