From owner-freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Thu Jul 16 11:40:45 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 445D29A3DB8 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 11:40:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marin@olivarim.com) Received: from 7.mo68.mail-out.ovh.net (7.mo68.mail-out.ovh.net [46.105.63.230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E994E10F0 for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 11:40:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marin@olivarim.com) Received: from mail642.ha.ovh.net (b6.ovh.net [213.186.33.56]) by mo68.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 920EDFFA70B for ; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 13:03:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (HELO queueout) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 16 Jul 2015 13:03:12 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO nic-ppc-marin) (marin@olivarim.com@82.240.160.119) by ns0.ovh.net with AES128-GCM-SHA256 encrypted SMTP; 16 Jul 2015 13:03:10 +0200 Message-ID: <1437044560.4045.40.camel@olivarim.com> Subject: Re: Concerning our new Code of Conduct... From: Marin Bernard To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 13:02:40 +0200 In-Reply-To: <55A68A4C.7070402@mailoo.org> References: <55A647EE.4080504@meixner.dk> <55A68A4C.7070402@mailoo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.16.3 (3.16.3-2.fc22) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 10335198196091529189 X-Ovh-Remote: 82.240.160.119 () X-Ovh-Local: 213.186.33.20 (ns0.ovh.net) X-OVH-SPAMSTATE: OK X-OVH-SPAMSCORE: 49 X-OVH-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrfeekvddrieduucetufdoteggucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuqfggjfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucgoufhushhpvggtthffohhmrghinhculdegledm X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: 49 X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrfeekvddrieduucetufdoteggucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuqfggjfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucgoufhushhpvggtthffohhmrghinhculdegledm X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 11:40:45 -0000 This is a highly subjective point of view. People are responsible for what they release publicly. Many people, men and women, feminist or not, disagree with this kind of communication. As a male, feminist, pro -LGBT individual, I do. And I really do understand Johannes' position. A Code of conduct must apply to anybody. And it must apply even stronger if you own any important position. I could change my profile picture to this http://bit.ly/1Lc6B3V or that http://bit.ly/1Mcf0ob, and then pretend that's some kind of subtle irony because, as a gay boy, I'm unable to hate women. The move wouldn't be smart, of course. It would probably be damageable to my own reputation, but not to the community, as I'm Mr. Nobody. As an influential member of the community though, and even more as an Online Abuse Prevention Expert, people would get quite a different message. I think that's what happens with the "male tears" thing. Believe it or not, it may offense people. Not everybody; certain people. I'm not involved in the FreeBSD community, even if it might change in the future. Like other people, I only subscribed to the ML to stay up to date. As a result, I have a very detached point of view on the situation. The whole communication about all this is a disaster: it convinced me to give myself some time to think before getting more involved. I'm probably not the only one to feel that way. The whole Code of conduct idea is really great. It's too bad that people in charge of it have such selective, fixed ideas of what may or may not hurt people. I expect them to be overcome their own personal views on that matter; that's why they are here. Le mercredi 15 juillet 2015 à 18:29 +0200, Edelwin Khaelos a écrit : > Hello Johannes, > The concept of quote "male tears" unquote makes fun of people > identifying (and recognized as) males in the society who complain > about > being oppressed (in a patriarchal society). This is of course a > highly > ironical term. You can read more at > http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/08/08/ironic_misandry_why_f > eminists_joke_about_drinking_male_tears_and_banning.html > > and to quote this article: > « Ironic misandry is “a reductio ad absurdum”[…]. “It's inhabiting > the > most exaggerated, implausible distortion of your position, in order > to > show that it's ridiculous.” ». > > Yes, you can chill out, you are not going to be hunted for your tears > by > a horde of feminists as if you were the white rhinoceros :) > > Le 15/07/2015 13:45, Johannes Jost Meixner a écrit : > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA256 > > > > Dear all, > > > > I actually like our new code of conduct. It protects my rights as a > > human being, and it gives me safety in knowing that they will be > > respected by my fellow FreeBSD developers. > > > > However... > > > > The code of conduct explicitly states that discrimination based on > > gender is one such issue that is -explicitly- forbidden, and that > > interpersonal communication is to be kept civil, tolerant and > > impersonal > > . > > > > > > Obviously, when a member of the FreeBSD community sets out to > > collect > > quote "male tears" unquote, I see this as a huge disservice to the > > advocacy of the FreeBSD project, and there is a time and place for > > making my dissent public. I have kept quiet over the whole affair > > that > > was spurred by my taunting that person on Twitter; today that > > person > > has gone too far. > > > > > > I - as a male - feel not only not tolerated, but also discriminated > > against, because the action so taken has shown that the person > > taking > > this action (while celebrating the code of conduct) does not value > > it > > in the slightest. > > > > > > Given my previous run-in with that person, I have thought twice > > before > > posting this email. > > > > > > If that person keeps continuing to break the code of conduct this > > person advocated for, and keeps doing that in the name and with > > consent of the FreeBSD community, > > > > > > I shall immediately cease all public contributions to the FreeBSD > > project, including but not limited to > > > > - - upstreaming all the patches I have generated that have not made > > it > > into the portstree -so far- > > > > - - contributing new, and updating outdated ports as well as fixing > > bugs > > (last I counted, I had 216 ports commits under my belt) > > > > - - reviewing the 64bit Linux Emulation ports as well as > > maintaining > > *any* of the 32bit ports, which I myself contributed during 9 > > months > > of hard work, > > > > - - advocacy events I had planned for this fall to happen in > > Estonia > > with Garage48.org, and started organizing with the Tallinn > > Technical > > University, > > > > - - various small improvements to the FreeBSD documentation. > > > > > > I do not stand for a community that gives itself a Code of Conduct, > > and in that the very members who advocate for it -- kick it with > > their > > own feets. > > > > > > Screenshots of the material in question attached. > > > > > > > > - -- > > Best regards, > > > > Johannes Meixner > > > > “If you saw Atlas, the giant who holds the world on his shoulders, > > if > > you saw that he stood, blood running down his chest, his knees > > buckling, his arms trembling but still trying to hold the world > > aloft > > with the last of his strength, and the greater his effort the > > heavier > > the world bore down upon his shoulders - What would you tell him?" > > > > "I…don't know. What…could he do? What would you tell him?" > > > > "To shrug.” > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v2 > > > > iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJVpkfsAAoJEElqnXBiUNQCmy0QAJPh0NMOk/a88QLnwv5L/EWe > > 86W81++ed7loEo7p25Laqk2kx1fU+x4UXszEj8Z7hF7FxNO5P+r2T9RBmg7CCmUj > > 8PwINpHFM8Mo03Pn9Zzbm1QMTpmsnttOfI5lclOJeE1/+LnLt2ebKO/3Aj9bFbZ5 > > LtPQ/bDINWunAIfaUxHVBw5j18p4HBsa8OeE2+97Al2/fqHUN/V1DJEgRM5eRM0F > > fifBPw2sE4EQE2xS4ZJ2M/CrGAr8xBQ1inlDCFjghTZ6IOwCb2kmQldZG1A/3u0E > > uDuN+Xr9J9JTcf2/kj0qvY0SVsasIT2EYdaG9KnqoioHNE4MvgkERkVGWMDg2AiO > > /O4m1rUxgM2dY9UY8PclftWrylzM3D3NFWyeYnsnPiHoD7nuOgMs+LxDQifIPQis > > YT6AW95QjScHQBnLwiJRZVR9c9hItyPW/+58OTMdD2eYIDjSjekA9OcSjfQbnz8H > > +LKNEzLd4kFWHIglXlpIVdQFTVCqNINCzSA1kkijNlhy2Kbxa+csZio7JZPF/27x > > DVa6Voyfag4vYlHZxpos1Sy40KWpWIrmcUpUUQ/jMoxEfkfg/BDvsW421nfSnldM > > OoY8DqiLlEfY+TmzJQ8hd8RoasaYZxAb8aHuBUojwtsrTF2XvfrS4IZlapN2Q1xW > > P78VPIAIxRalYRkIA0ib > > =ayEV > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > > freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"