From owner-svn-ports-all@freebsd.org Thu Jul 16 15:20:49 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-ports-all@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1A19A32E2; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 15:20:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from baptiste.daroussin@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-x22d.google.com (mail-wi0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CCBB81C27; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 15:20:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from baptiste.daroussin@gmail.com) Received: by wicmv11 with SMTP id mv11so19400983wic.1; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 08:20:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=erHlbgLya2B9b6kzWoiXOaMqoZq3Mv7oPHbTE/bjT7s=; b=gz3CEfc/tgOh65f0Ri9GbkG9asm7yfvNeFvtVwRypIL6Ue/gEA1xmQCIZDRQP+EoLo IlP33aivv9VaX4yokxF0CUl2a1CDgPN3sEoSG6XCOy2/BA+//dhKwPsjqiqOo59sOPwb ET86ZRHla/jTk3Q+8dVXJyovsLZ1LiPCKNmAGrQcJMX5ft09tZz0D/uZfi1294aYoKmL pvFxpCJ3d8QBEQgWajEXVIhKZSc5xah84BhR9ipfVNs7LOKD+j+3oBQqhWHH9icO/Ijd HWT4ARdlE0HIgweh2IQ6RNeD2+0IpN6FZbvKyvuaZJJwQfnStTGvG4p8ct4fjdLT9PdK m0SA== X-Received: by 10.180.79.134 with SMTP id j6mr7737757wix.83.1437060047196; Thu, 16 Jul 2015 08:20:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ivaldir.etoilebsd.net ([2001:41d0:8:db4c::1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id hn2sm13592915wjc.45.2015.07.16.08.20.45 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 16 Jul 2015 08:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Baptiste Daroussin Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 17:20:44 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: Alexey Dokuchaev Cc: Mathieu Arnold , Dmitry Marakasov , ports-committers@freebsd.org, svn-ports-all@freebsd.org, svn-ports-head@freebsd.org Subject: Re: svn commit: r392209 - in head/devel: . p5-Minilla Message-ID: <20150716152043.GZ37597@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> References: <201507152017.t6FKHElA056017@svnmir.geo.freebsd.org> <20150716014306.GA68880@FreeBSD.org> <20150716091021.GW37597@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <20150716092053.GX37597@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <20150716145201.GA13745@FreeBSD.org> <20150716145920.GY37597@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <20150716151730.GA21677@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ri7MIv52hxsKkbzo" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20150716151730.GA21677@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-BeenThere: svn-ports-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for the ports tree List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 15:20:49 -0000 --ri7MIv52hxsKkbzo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 03:17:30PM +0000, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 04:59:21PM +0200, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 02:52:01PM +0000, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > > > I see your point. I'm not saying that :=3D is *always* a better way;= even > > > though I must say debugging Makefiles is pretty easy with -V FOO and = @echo > > > in recipes. What I'm not happy with is blunt ":=3D is wrong, don't e= ver use > > > it!" statement: it does come handy often in many cases and checking i= f it > > > does the right thing is easy once you compare "make -V RUN_DEPENDS | = md5" > > > vs. "make -V BULID_DEPENDS | md5" (in addition to visual examination). > >=20 > > That is imho a too pedantic approach, pragmatism should lead and pragma= tism > > is people often misunderstand it, and most people do not understand mak= e(1) > > internals (I won't blame them for that, I would prefer not knowing it i= n the > > first place). By people I mean both maintainers and committers if you b= ring > > to the battle the back we do support 2 differents make with slightly > > different behaviours in some part it becomes even more complicated. > >=20 > > We should promote safe syntaxes by handbook or by our own practive beca= use > > it will be used as example by others. that will save us from hours havi= ng > > to clean the ports tree where things can easily break as a side effect = of > > changes in other parts of the framework. >=20 > Fair enough; even though I still stand by the "people should know their > tools" stanza. So I'm not openly against that change to the PHB section: > lets make it easier for new folks to get a hold of things, no problem. >=20 > But forbidding a 100% perfectly valid, supported, and documented syntax > used in good will and intention by an experienced developer is IMO wrong. Given the number of times I had fixed side effect of this I bet I'm would l= ike to know how many people really knows how make(1) works :) in particular in = that area. With the new way of validating dependencies (where the pattern is now also checked after the dependency is installed, people would now quickly noticed= but before this recent change it was most of the time silent. poudriere was the= only tool able to notice that). Best regards, Bapt --ri7MIv52hxsKkbzo Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAlWny8sACgkQ8kTtMUmk6EztAACeO91xrcE+cqhG3u5Ipzy06ANc S/cAoLZhQ3TWQTa+4QJih3b44Zu4HSA8 =bW6K -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ri7MIv52hxsKkbzo--