From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 19 21:30:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7B54B71 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 21:30:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kline@thought.org) Received: from p3plsmtpa06-02.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa06-02.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.192.103]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A9428FC18 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 21:30:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ethic.thought.org ([209.180.213.209]) by p3plsmtpa06-02.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id RZTo1k00H4XeM0101ZTpN2; Mon, 19 Nov 2012 14:27:49 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:27:52 -0800 From: Gary Kline To: Daniel Feenberg Subject: Re: Anybody use the Dell 3010?? Message-ID: <20121119212752.GB3936@ethic.thought.org> References: <20121118085838.GA7267@ethic.thought.org> <50AA00BA.1040007@bnrlabs.com> <20121119114306.ff21baa9.freebsd@edvax.de> <20121119060029.76b85120@scorpio> <20121119121832.de248106.freebsd@edvax.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: Polytropon , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 21:30:26 -0000 On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 10:30:44AM -0500, Daniel Feenberg wrote: > > > > On Mon, 19 Nov 2012, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote: > > >On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 4:55 AM, Daniel Feenberg wrote: > > > >> > >> > >>On Mon, 19 Nov 2012, Polytropon wrote: > >> > >> On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 06:00:29 -0500, Jerry wrote: > >>> > >>>>On Mon, 19 Nov 2012 11:43:06 +0100 > >>>>Polytropon articulated: > >>>> > >>>> Allow me to provide just one example: > >>>>> > >>>>> More in the series of bizarre UEFI bugs > >>>>> http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/**20187.html > >>>>> > >>> > >>> > >>The only way for FreeBSD (or Linux, for that matter) to survive > >>in a world where hardware vendors care only about Windows, is > >>to make sure that FreeBSD only depends upon features that Windows > >>uses. If a hardware or firmware specification requires feature X, > >>but Windows doesn't use feature X, then vendors won't test feature > >>X, and FreeBSD can't depend on it being functional. So it shouldn't > >>be required by FreeBSD. It can be used, provided it isn't required. > >>In this case it may mean that FreeBSD must identify itself as > >>Windows, just as all browsers identify themselves as IE. > >> > > > > > >The above paragraph is completely meaningless , because neither *BSD , nor > >Linux > >is a marginal operating system . > > > >Please see > > > >http://www.top500.org/statistics/list/ > > > > > >Select from this "Operating System Family" > >where in world's 500 super computers , Windows is on ONLY 3 computers , the > >rest is > >almost Linux 469 , Unix 20 , BSD-based 1 computers and others . I'll take a bow, or part-of, for the BSD computer. Maybe I shouldn't. 1/500 is nothing to put on my tombstone:-) > >http://www.asus.com/Static_WebPage/OS_Compatibility/ > >http://www.asus.com/websites/global/aboutasus/OS/Linux.pdf > >contains Linux distributions supported in ASUS desktop boards . > > > >Some trade marked servers excluded , Linux and *BSD run on many server > >hardware . > > > > It isn't what vendors should care about. I agree they should care > about FreeBSD. But by and large they don't. Arguing that they should > serves no purpose. They have poor moral character, that is why they > don't care and also why they are impervious to argument, except from > large customers. The handful of server vendors that are exceptions > do not detract from the force of my argument. > > daniel feenberg answer me this, daniel or anybody else:: isn't there a very small group who is devoted to creating a 100% open/free hardware and software? maybe 64-bit only to start? most of us who are still alive and contributing *something* might be interested in this. forget where I read it, but unless I was dreaming, it was for real and would fit the "OPen-*" model... . gary -- Gary Kline kline@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Twenty-six years of service to the Unix community.