From owner-freebsd-net@freebsd.org Mon Oct 8 17:47:12 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-net@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A265F10C6338 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 17:47:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-it1-x136.google.com (mail-it1-x136.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4015743DF for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2018 17:47:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-it1-x136.google.com with SMTP id 74-v6so12612486itw.1 for ; Mon, 08 Oct 2018 10:47:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=dmRfroMTJZoNiPqeHAYFeoa8JLPojbS2pPmv8/lzemQ=; b=dDlEM2uHWXmVSOmUBGTsYpDRhzpQpapdqMaYaU9UAD6xHZEsZL96SsfUeFjAaOChqP VqQLFnLHfruY4wHF91Xw2Sap6uPvM99Wbgoaka4O3xbcDBItyob/iVbjZRxiWcQwFmse xw0odv1RXfwVGsJ5gLoxwlf9/ncZ3iO8pLDOssD7FYo4+QUr15FgNUmsU4pzVSr/i8zx vI4Q50HUTYklfVvWQtS49Uo24sRZE/ePYFDUUP4Y0dPDfJ1bRJkxe/kCQ60BW37OfnpX fGCaODMG8mzdb6g52kbRZvSXCs+Nf5cLHR5BFCfO2F/qtrYhZ3OZ9LZXjYSbgHsgNQPp SSEQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dmRfroMTJZoNiPqeHAYFeoa8JLPojbS2pPmv8/lzemQ=; b=MaDGKwMjBpwnFkcMn+ER9PtSNnkEoSiF7F5BBzRJcqAIVCV5EpXk/VXJv/wlDVOwrC x7WkJm9wvWamHa6BbZVz0atyxYzNEcc/bVwo3ri+hIjMgC5tYDMJ5T91nqM5tFxEXq8l Zrbo+4YIfKcG3CD5/HriQYSRE0w3mjuo5w2ELDaUjEPhB1F1yY8UOpFJehD1RQ72DGSC JlWIclpxydmAnrJbYQ9HC3OQj230yu8bJpO1Ywjc+NHZ7XIl6WEu+zyzd09g+nNDUT/L bsqc2twLZEbMX2FrRpuJ5Hb7xRfTUPISHh5xYgx9SlJicqyRChzKnT52RxYEtYbCLX12 aggQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfohwwni1MmxQzpFwQ0UiBbkkdgnfEPonk6b2Mnk93SCuaG0uKZMp /cOZjfymA2EMlqToN9itgRDX0+5UMn7POFDpDavRVra1 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV601pEs5gYCuDZmnJcy4bT8+WhqT0ZfRQTip7vhUzhA9NbGjV6qXpW2dvtcBcGHGMsrfAf9cYd3NuSIbQIFUrSs= X-Received: by 2002:a24:d4c1:: with SMTP id x184-v6mr17625227itg.79.1539020830746; Mon, 08 Oct 2018 10:47:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <20181004084411.GA50348@FreeBSD.org> <6ff05cab-24a1-d18a-df21-6c51a5c33b3e@netfence.it> <20181008170345.GA9766@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> In-Reply-To: <20181008170345.GA9766@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2018 11:46:59 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers To: Brooks Davis Cc: ml@netfence.it, FreeBSD Net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.27 X-BeenThere: freebsd-net@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Networking and TCP/IP with FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2018 17:47:12 -0000 On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 11:03 AM Brooks Davis wrote: > On Sun, Oct 07, 2018 at 11:25:48AM +0200, Andrea Venturoli wrote: > > On 10/4/18 3:07 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > At the root of this problem is the community's long resistance to > having > > > data reported back to the project data about the machines running > FreeBSD. > > > Absent any real and significant data, the only way to know if things > are > > > unused is to ask. We cannot have the act of merely asking cause people > to > > > freak out and hurl expletives all over the place. That's significantly > not > > > cool. > > > > First off, I absolutely don't want to flame: I'm glad you asked and I > > was happy to answer. > > > > Just out of curiosity, don't we have sysutils/bsdstats (which I install > > on all the boxes I manage, but I understand won't be present in most > > embedded systems)? > > Is that project such a failure? > > If so, should it be better promoted or would it be pointless? > > In theory it would provide valuable data, but in practice the website is > broken and unable to produce device data. I've asked multiple times for > it to be fixed. It would be great if it worked and we could use it. > There's also a few problems with using the data that's there for what we want to do with it. Warner