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[109.81.215.120]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i93sm23865408wri.57.2019.08.25.21.29.02 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 25 Aug 2019 21:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: svn commit: r351423 - in head: . sbin/ping6 sbin/ping6/tests To: Alan Somers , "Conrad E. Meyer" Cc: Hiroki Sato , src-committers , svn-src-all , svn-src-head References: <201908231522.x7NFMLuJ068037@repo.freebsd.org> <20190826.042056.1329861772202588895.hrs@allbsd.org> <20190826.050922.1810654532466043358.hrs@allbsd.org> From: Jan Sucan Message-ID: <379c3378-f9dd-4d6b-35ca-fa1ac7e6386b@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 06:28:52 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 46Gzh95VMDz3Mmw X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=QBLiVDf0; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of sucanjan@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::442 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=sucanjan@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.19 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(0.00)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.76)[-0.758,0]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[120.215.81.109.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_XBL(5.00)[120.215.81.109.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.4]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(0.00)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.07)[-0.065,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.986,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (2.67), ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-3.00), asn: 15169(-2.33), country: US(-0.05)]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2.4.4.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body] X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 04:35:23 -0000 Hello, I can implement it. I suppose that ping6's manual page should be kept it this case. I was also thinking about printing a warning for each option renamed to lead a willing user to use the new unified option set of ping. It could be either only with -v, or by default and suppressed with -q. Or should the option translation be completely transparent? -Jan On 26. 8. 2019 1:58, Alan Somers wrote: > Jan (please keep him CCed on replies) has been musing about the same > thing. That might satisfy everyone. Jan, would it be straightforward > to implement? > -Alan > > On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 5:51 PM Conrad Meyer wrote: >> Hi Alan, Hiroki, >> >> It would be pretty easy to install a `ping6` link to the `ping(8)` >> binary with different option parsing (conditional on argv[0]). That >> removes most of the issues of code and space duplication, I think? >> And the goal would be for the 'ping6' name to retain option >> compatibility with historical ping6. >> >> It's not an uncommon pattern; for example, 'id', 'groups', and >> 'whoami' are all a single binary with multiple linked names. Another >> example is Clang, which provides 'cc', 'c++', 'clang', 'clang-cpp', >> 'clang++' and 'cpp' links to the same inode — and those have very >> different behavior depending on argv[0]. >> >> It's less work than forcing the ping6 compatibility crowd to create a >> port and doesn't hurt ping(8) much, AFAICT. Is it an acceptable >> middle ground? >> >> Best, >> Conrad >> >> On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 1:26 PM alan somers wrote: >>> On Sun, Aug 25, 2019, 2:11 PM Hiroki Sato wrote: >>>> Alan Somers wrote >>>> in : >>>> >>>> as> On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 1:22 PM Hiroki Sato wrote: >>>> as> > >>>> as> > Hi, >>>> as> > >>>> as> > Alan Somers wrote >>>> as> > in <201908231522.x7NFMLuJ068037@repo.freebsd.org>: >>>> as> > >>>> as> > as> Author: asomers >>>> as> > as> Date: Fri Aug 23 15:22:20 2019 >>>> as> > as> New Revision: 351423 >>>> as> > as> URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/351423 >>>> as> > as> >>>> as> > as> Log: >>>> as> > as> ping6: Rename options for better consistency with ping >>>> as> > as> >>>> as> > as> Now equivalent options have the same flags, and nonequivalent options have >>>> as> > as> different flags. This is a prelude to merging the two commands. >>>> as> > as> >>>> as> > as> Submitted by: Ján Sučan >>>> as> > as> MFC: Never >>>> as> > as> Sponsored by: Google LLC (Google Summer of Code 2019) >>>> as> > as> Differential Revision: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D21345 >>>> as> > >>>> as> > I have an objection on renaming the existing option flags in ping6(8) >>>> as> > for compatibility with ping(8). >>>> as> > >>>> as> > Is it sufficient to add INET6 support to ping(8) with consistent >>>> as> > flags and keep CLI of ping6(8) backward compatible? People have used >>>> as> > ping6(8) for >15 years, so it is too late to rename the flags. I do >>>> as> > not think the renaming is useful if "ping -6 localhost" or "ping ::1" >>>> as> > works. >>>> as> > >>>> as> > -- Hiroki >>>> as> >>>> as> If ping works with inet6, then why would we want to keep a separate >>>> as> tool around? If it's just for the sake of people who don't want to or >>>> as> can't update scripts, would a version in ports suffice? >>>> >>>> Because removing (or renaming) it causes a POLA violation. Do we >>>> really have a strong, unavoidable reason to force people to rewrite >>>> their script now? This is still a fairly essential and actively used >>>> tool, not like rcp or rlogin. Although deprecating ping6(8) and >>>> removing it from the base system in the future release at some point >>>> may work, changing the existing interface will simply confuse people >>>> who have used IPv6 for a long time. >>>> >>>> In my understanding, the purpose to integrate ping(8) and ping6(8) >>>> into a single utility is to provide a consistent CLI and reduce >>>> duplicate code, not to break compatibility. >>>> >>>> -- Hiroki >>> >>> Those goals are incompatible. We can't provide a consistent CLI without breaking compatibility because ping and ping6 have conflicting options. And we can't keep ping6 around while also removing duplicate code because that would be, well, duplicate code. >>> >>> When would be a better time than a major version bump to make a change like this? >>> >>> The lack of a ping6 command in freebsd 13 should serve as a pretty obvious reminder that scripts will need updating. I think that putting a version of ping6 in ports should be a sufficient crutch for those who need it, don't you?