Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 00:08:22 -0400 From: Jason Hellenthal <jhell@DataIX.net> To: Doug Barton <dougb@freebsd.org> Cc: freebsd-rc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [RFC][Change-Request] Create usefulness in rc.subr etc/rc.conf.d/*.conf namespace. Message-ID: <20110510040822.GB18435@DataIX.net> In-Reply-To: <4DC8A592.2090202@FreeBSD.org> References: <20110508191336.GC3527@DataIX.net> <4DC84E68.1000203@FreeBSD.org> <007d01cc0e9d$00301ff0$00905fd0$@vicor.com> <4DC8787A.9070003@FreeBSD.org> <20110509235746.GC2558@DataIX.net> <4DC8A592.2090202@FreeBSD.org>
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Doug,
On Mon, May 09, 2011 at 07:40:18PM -0700, Doug Barton wrote:
> On 05/09/2011 16:57, Jason Hellenthal wrote:
> >
> > Doug,
> >
> > On Mon, May 09, 2011 at 04:27:54PM -0700, Doug Barton wrote:
>=20
> > Sorry Doug but rc.conf.d is already laid out for the user to use as
> > mentioned by rc.conf(5) with a suggested use but unfortunately has quit=
e a
> > few side effects that I am not going to bother re-writing about again.
>=20
> I read what you have written to date, but I don't see anything other=20
> than "It doesn't work the way I want it to." I just re-read the=20
> description in rc.conf.5, and I think it's clear, but I wouldn't object=
=20
> to suggestions to improve it.
>=20
> > In reply to your previous email here is one exercise that should point
> > out the broken functionality fairly clearly or at least I hope clearly
> > enough that you realize how a normal user would look at it.
> >
> > From scratch, no rc.conf.
>=20
> No normal user would do that, so I reject your premise. :)
>=20
Ok let me re-state that because you seem to have taken that litterally as=
=20
absolutely no rc.conf. "A rc.conf but without the needed nfs related=20
parts" This is an example!.
> > Setup a NFS server with lockd, statd, mountd,
> > rpcbind using only rc.conf.d/${_name} namespace and then try starting
> > these services using service(8) and /etc/rc.d/* files. Then read
> > rc.conf(5) and tell me the suggestion for jail makes sense.
>=20
> The various nfs-related options are a particularly pathological case, no=
=20
> one is disputing that. However, for the vast majority of purposes the=20
> one-name-at-a-time method works fine. And given that most users don't=20
> need anything even approaching the type of functionality that you're=20
> proposing, I still don't see a problem.
>=20
I was not asking your you opinion of the way it works. You asked for an=20
example and one was given and you seem to be all opposed to even going=20
through and testing out that example to see where the stumbling blocks are=
=20
as you apparently have no recognition of them now. NFS is not the only case.
> > If you still disagree after doing this then please by all means eradica=
te
> > rc.conf.d from rc.conf(5) and remove its functionality from rc.subr as =
it
> > is less than adequate for anybody other than a developers natural use.
>=20
> I hope you'll understand if I politely decline your request.
>=20
I was not expecting anything less than your typical response.
> > I do not quite understand why you take such an opposition against
> > something that fixes this broken functionality but yet retains its
> > original use.
>=20
> Gordon has already stated it fairly eloquently, but I'll paraphrase. Too=
=20
> much potential for user confusion, for too little benefit. I realize=20
> that to you this sounds like a simple change, but the problem is that=20
> when you add knobs, users twist them. So every change to something as=20
> fundamental as the boot system needs to have really strong justification.
>=20
Sadly at this point you still seem to not realize the complicated state=20
that rc.conf.d is in. This is not adding a new knob and you seem to miss=20
that part as well. This fixes that complication on the rc.conf.d directory=
=20
and it could be properly implemented in a way that it should have been in=
=20
the first place as the manual suggests.
What do you propose to do with the manual page ? can you sum that up for=20
me please ? I would be quite interested in how you or anyone for that=20
matter explain properly how this is actually working.
--=20
Regards, (jhell)
Jason Hellenthal
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