From owner-svn-src-all@freebsd.org Fri May 25 05:30:09 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B752F731F1; Fri, 25 May 2018 05:30:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C42A73132; Fri, 25 May 2018 05:30:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id M5IffSdUPSzNNM5Ihf2DE5; Thu, 24 May 2018 23:30:06 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=KuxjJ1eN c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=VUJBJC2UJ8kA:10 a=xfDLHkLGAAAA:8 a=-FGs326eAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=MxtUtNusukCCqAP_r0QA:9 a=ow--yyR-FP5WdFhh:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=IfaqVvZgccqrtc8gcwf2:22 a=7Nw9HX5Nqxt2AnyyOhBr:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3BCC5156F; Thu, 24 May 2018 22:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w4P5TwfU046475; Thu, 24 May 2018 22:29:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id w4P5Tu6E046413; Thu, 24 May 2018 22:29:56 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201805250529.w4P5Tu6E046413@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Maxim Sobolev cc: Mark Linimon , Matthew Macy , Andrew Gallatin , Pedro Giffuni , Cy Schubert , Brooks Davis , Eugene Grosbein , Stefan Esser , "rgrimes@freebsd.org" , Gleb Smirnoff , Sean Bruno , "svn-src-head@freebsd.org" , "svn-src-all@freebsd.org" , "src-committers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Deorbiting i386 In-Reply-To: Message from Maxim Sobolev of "Thu, 24 May 2018 21:27:28 -0700." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 22:29:56 -0700 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfDltF4i2FXyW5G0Am5V0q8JRV1GOzOlMMcLzu9GccmhqtbzBNwFe0L+/kMZK6bkHczkCfYJugVjR7f+wjtYpvOyuJxcmq1w7rTaavHIYfIXnvi4YRNAR S6aEsZ4TwBqvKUYYMJ4bfzfRLJ1vDfxHCX0asH8/5gv/58fZj3t53xCwW3l4aAQLcvLfTS8Qh6oJk+pYahj9bWdiSS+hVCyko1JiZcyQovgvHj9e3SQc0V8j x+YmO5lWbB4u5IT61TUznI2xiWfxKMvrpzlSGrQqhFUSGkuhTNjZXOf3hGpTmGFkepaolwEirKZqQLi4DEQVMpi4NyiBBFy/TsG1m1L4PBDiXS0fJwcmah7S yWKixXx+9W0XgOPhaOu57kaDznVOD0exY4DC+L933ows7e6I455eZbyIUpAD/V4ovN31KQ5zYA8GldpOZzZpFQiQ4DH7ZYBEZErcR1fDbsi+PgHB2CStIFAI ggHaffHm3nYSkWzgeP/oC6b00qKrSx8UOGqxpYX6VY6jGtEO4+hhaeA7T+s/qU3DQUGW+4fGVmvzjfJG8uyM+eVtgAePADPzeAlzJBLXjuxWKIrnBKcL0Yyp FJs= X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 25 May 2018 10:39:55 +0000 X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 05:30:09 -0000 In message , Maxim Sobolev writes: > --00000000000046c92e056d00305f > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > The idea looks very inmature and short-sighted to me. i386 is here to stay > not as a server/desktop platform but as an embedded/low power/low cost > platform for at least 5-10 years to come. There are plenty of applications > in the world that don't need > 3gb of memory space and have no use for > extra bits (and extra silicon) to function. By quitting this space early > FreeBSD is going to make itself unavailable for those applications. We are > striving to support mips and the likes, with just tens of megabytes of > memory and marginal at best adoption. Yet seriously discussing ditching out > solid platform that has been our workforce for 20+ years?? How many newly developed embedded applications use i386? Most embedded applications I've seen in 2018 use ARM. The original discussion point was to start considering it -- a roadmap (FreeBSD 14 or 15, or by 2023). 2038 is quickly approaching. The dominant O/S distros have by and large dropped or are working to deprecate it. When we break i386 few complain and even then not immediately. I don't think it's a large share of our market. ~cy > > -Max > > On Thu, May 24, 2018, 5:40 PM Mark Linimon wrote: > > > On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 12:22:37PM -0700, Matthew Macy wrote: > > > All you need to know about sparc64 vitality is that HEAD didn't boot > > > for 3 months until last week. > > > > All you need to know is that -11 works fine, but, after so much drama > > from various places, I haven't even bothered upgrading any of my machines > > to 12. > > > > mcl > > > > > > --00000000000046c92e056d00305f > Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >
The idea looks very inmature and short-sighted to me. i38= > 6 is here to stay not as a server/desktop platform but as an embedded/low p= > ower/low cost platform for at least 5-10 years to come. There are plenty of= > applications in the world that don't need > 3gb of memory space and= > have no use for extra bits (and extra silicon) to function. By quitting th= > is space early FreeBSD is going to make itself unavailable for those applic= > ations. We are striving to support mips and the likes, with just tens of me= > gabytes of memory and marginal at best adoption. Yet seriously discussing d= > itching out solid platform that has been our workforce for 20+ years??=C2= > =A0

-Max

lass=3D"gmail_quote">
On Thu, May 24, 2018, 5:40 PM Mark Li= > nimon <linimon@lonesome.com&= > gt; wrote:
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Thu, May 24, 2018 at = > 12:22:37PM -0700, Matthew Macy wrote:
> > All you need to know about sparc64 vitality is that HEAD didn't bo= > ot
> > for 3 months until last week.
>
> All you need to know is that -11 works fine, but, after so much drama
> from various places, I haven't even bothered upgrading any of my machin= > es
> to 12.
>
> mcl
>
>
> > --00000000000046c92e056d00305f-- -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few.