From owner-svn-src-all@freebsd.org Fri May 25 07:40:40 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8A34F753E9; Fri, 25 May 2018 07:40:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 421FB769A5; Fri, 25 May 2018 07:40:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.55.3]) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 892DE14897; Fri, 25 May 2018 07:40:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w4P7eUVd029337 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 25 May 2018 07:40:30 GMT (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id w4P7ePvp029330; Fri, 25 May 2018 07:40:25 GMT (envelope-from phk) To: David Chisnall cc: Maxim Sobolev , Mark Linimon , Matthew Macy , Andrew Gallatin , Pedro Giffuni , Cy Schubert , Brooks Davis , Eugene Grosbein , Stefan Esser , "rgrimes@freebsd.org" , Gleb Smirnoff , Sean Bruno , "svn-src-head@freebsd.org" , "svn-src-all@freebsd.org" , "src-committers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Deorbiting i386 In-reply-to: <52678325-8265-4333-8C4F-2C8D53C822F4@theravensnest.org> From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: <201805232218.w4NMIxMA067892@slippy.cwsent.com> <18a87d6d-14af-ef9d-80ff-403039e36692@cs.duke.edu> <20180525003949.GA710@lonesome.com> <52678325-8265-4333-8C4F-2C8D53C822F4@theravensnest.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <29328.1527234025.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 07:40:25 +0000 Message-ID: <29329.1527234025@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 25 May 2018 10:39:55 +0000 X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 07:40:40 -0000 -------- In message <52678325-8265-4333-8C4F-2C8D53C822F4@theravensnest.org>, David= Chisnall writes: >On 25 May 2018, at 05:27, Maxim Sobolev wrote: >> = >> The idea looks very inmature and short-sighted to me. i386 is here to = >stay not as a server/desktop platform but as an embedded/low power/low = >cost platform for at least 5-10 years to come. There are plenty of = >applications in the world that don't need > 3gb of memory space and have = >no use for extra bits (and extra silicon) to function. > >This argument seems very odd to me. If you are targeting the embedded = >space, it is far easier to build a low-power chip that targets the = >x86-64 ISA than the x86-32 ISA. Any company doing so would also have to consider IP/patent/licensing facto= rs. That said, the main reason why i386 is still doing surprisingly well in the embedded space, is that there are still truckloads of "legacy" software running under MS-DOS and similar, and it works well enough that "a simple hardware upgrade" is enough to satisfy contingency planning. For FreeBSD that market centers on the "Soekris Segment" Most of the chips in those platforms are EOL'ed now, Soekris has moved into the audio-homeopathy market, and PCengines are also phasing out their x86 kit. That sucks for the people running other operating systems, but various taiwanese companies produce usable HW. Anything written moderately competent using FreeBSD on i386 can be trivially ported to amd64, if the new hardware supports that, or to an entirely different 32bit arch arch like arm or mips. So absolutely: Kill i386 once 12 has been branched. Poul-Henning ... Who ran Win3.11 a couple of years ago because of Vladimir Putin. -- = Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe = Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence= .